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DoctorQui
Blue Belt
Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 314
Location: Gt Manchester, UK
Styles: Shotokan, Wado Ryu and Aikido
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 Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: Press ups as a punishment! |
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What does everyone feel about press ups as a punishment in the Dojo?
I've always had mixed feelings about it but in a lot of the cases in is good for instilling discipline which is essentially what martial arts is all about!
BUT how about punishing adults with press ups when they make a mistake, do you think this is right?
I don't think it is, when you have an adult who pays a lot of money to train and is there out of choice and wants to learn but doesn't always understand the instruction or has misheard or just does the technique wrong!!
Should punishment in the DOjo be reserved for the kids as a way of disciplining them as many of them have concentration problems!
Whats the consensus? |
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Evil Dave
Orange Belt
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Victoria, BC
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Always a tricky question, and up to the discretion of the head instructor.
What I see regularly is instructors 'punishing' individuals {little kid or adult and all in between} for making a mistake while learning. Isn't making mistakes what learning is all about? So what is the difference between 'corrective punishment' where you are highlighting errors or 'discipline punishment' where you are correcting behavior?
Personally I don't like corrective punishment, other than rinse and repeat. That being said, every once in a while I do bring out what I call a 'punishment workout' and my students figure out what is happening very quickly. It is set as more of a mental challenge through me pushing the body and yelling and screaming. This is not an emotional response, but a planned workout and after it's done life returns back to normal. |
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JohnnyB
Orange Belt
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 148
Location: Athens, Greece
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see it as a punishment.
Its also a relaxing exercise for the person that is full of anxiety cuz of work/kids/problems you name it.
Karate like many martial arts requires you to be relaxed before attempting techniques so by doing some good efficient exercise like press ups (or push ups as we call them) is always correcting your 'attitude' in a positive manner imho.
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6th Kyu SKIF |
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 2704
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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I think using fitness as a punishment is a poor idea anyway. Fitness is something to be applauded and using it as punishment makes it seem like a bad thing.
Despite popular belief, martial arts do not create discipline. Only the desire to push one's self to get better creates discipline. It must come from within, it can't be enforced.
If someone is being disruptive, the best thing to do is to call it out immediately.
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"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenius." |
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2029
Location: New Orleans, LA
Styles: Capoeira Angola
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Dunno, i'd debated on using low stancework for a similar purpose, with the idea being that they aren't doing stuff with the rest of the class, but they aren't getting to rest either.
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"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia |
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Dobbersky
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1320
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Karate Do
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: |
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I only ever give pressups to the Kids and cadets as a rule, but Adults, I've never had to give pressups out as a "Punishment" but usually as a self-Critique issue.
For example if the get a Kata wrong they themselves will do say 10 then start it again.
I didn't know that Instructors would give out pressups to adults as can't see any point as they are "adults" so self-dicipline shouldn't be an issue
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"Challenge is a Dragon with a Gift in its mouth....Tame the Dragon and the Gift is Yours....." Noela Evans (author) |
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straightblast
Orange Belt
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 129
Styles: close quarter combat
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Adults or kids, if you drop your rattan stick or knife, 20 pushups.
Not paying attention or slow to assemble, whole class does 20.
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Enter-pressure-terminate |
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evergrey
Brown Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Posts: 734
Styles: kyokushin
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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It's done in my dojo, on the knuckle, elbows rubbing the sides. It strengthens our triceps. I hate it, but I accept it. I only get internally grumbly about it when I am the only one who did whatever it was RIGHT and still have to do 'em... mostly because push-ups are not something I can do well at my weight. Maybe when I get way better at weight lifting, heh.
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"If you can fatally judo-chop a bull, you can sit however you want." -MasterPain, on why Mas Oyama had Kyokushin karateka sit in seiza with their clenched fists on their thighs. |
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MasterPain
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1822
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Psycho Drive and Spanish Ninjitsu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| straightblast wrote: |
| Adults or kids, if you drop your rattan stick or knife, 20 pushups. |
This, I can see. It would help to mentally be more aware of having done so. Dropping your knife could mean death.
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Master Pain, maybe I was a little slow to react, but my flabber hadn't been so gasted! -Harkon72 |
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DWx
KF Sensei
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 4120
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Press ups as a punishment! |
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| DoctorQui wrote: |
I don't think it is, when you have an adult who pays a lot of money to train and is there out of choice and wants to learn but doesn't always understand the instruction or has misheard or just does the technique wrong!! |
Well I don't think you should punish people for that anyway. Unless its something along the lines of "do that technique again x many times making sure you get it right each time". But I think "punishment" is the wrong way to describe that then as its more like a teaching point.
We use push ups and extra forms or line drills for the kids when they misbehave, which is rare. Never have had to do it to adults, not because I object to treating them like that (I don't), but because no-one really steps out of line because they obviously want to be in the class learning otherwise they wouldn't have bothered turning up.
We do sometimes use push-ups or burpees  as penalties in paired exercises but I don't see that as punishment, more fitness. For example if they goal of the exercise is to get your partner with a roundhouse, if you catch them, they have to do burpees 
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on the post.
