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MMA_Jim
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Philadelphia
Styles: BJJ, Muay Thai
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 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Question for self defense |
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| xdylanw wrote: |
| I know that there are a million "what-if" questions out there, but this question seems the most practical when applying it to a street fight/self defense scenario. What if you're facing more than one opponent and your main fighting style is jiu jitsu? Jiu Jitsu does teach some striking, but i don't think that it is enough to say that one could be profficient at standing up and fighting. In a fight, if a jiu jitsu practitioner were to take someone to the ground, there is a high risk that one of the opponents "buddies" could easily capitalize on this and attack also. So what is the best method for dealing with multiple enemies when running or talking it out aren't options. |
Hey dylan, let me address a few issues that you seem to be having, or questions probing your mind.
First off, as has been said, you're making the assumption that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu always advocates taking the fight to the ground. This is not the case, as the situation you pointed out clearly shows. That being said, the fact that you want to avoid being taken to the ground in the situation you mentioned makes a grappler the best suited for that situation.
The most difficult people to take to the ground are grapplers, since they spend their time learning how to defend and execute takedowns. The easiest are non grapplers. What you need to know is that grappling experience is what determines your takedown defense and NOT striking experience. When you're being attacked by multiples, the fight is almost surely going to hit the ground, despite any type of strategy, style, or what have you. When it does, those most qualified to survive the onslaught and get back to their feet are once again, the grapplers. You can have the most dangerous striker in the world facing you, but have your friend grab him from behind and throw him to the ground and hes no longer a threat. Try keeping a skilled grappler on the ground when he doesnt want to be there (i.e. Chuck Liddell) and its a different scenario.
Beyond that, let me say this- there are no solutions to dealing with multiple attackers. The martial arts world is filled with people who claim to be able to teach you to defeat multiple attackers. Let anyone who claims to be able to defeat more than one person at once publicly demonstrate it. The very first UFC's were filled with people who made these very claims. What was shown was that the very same people who claimed to be able to defeat 2,3, or even 4 attackers at once were unable to defeat even a single attacker. So thats food for thought. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12924
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: Re: Question for self defense |
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| MMA_Jim wrote: |
| The most difficult people to take to the ground are grapplers, since they spend their time learning how to defend and execute takedowns. The easiest are non grapplers. What you need to know is that grappling experience is what determines your takedown defense and NOT striking experience. When you're being attacked by multiples, the fight is almost surely going to hit the ground, despite any type of strategy, style, or what have you. When it does, those most qualified to survive the onslaught and get back to their feet are once again, the grapplers. You can have the most dangerous striker in the world facing you, but have your friend grab him from behind and throw him to the ground and hes no longer a threat. Try keeping a skilled grappler on the ground when he doesnt want to be there (i.e. Chuck Liddell) and its a different scenario. |
Very well put. Grappling experience is what helps to keep you off the ground.
| MMA_Jim wrote: |
| Beyond that, let me say this- there are no solutions to dealing with multiple attackers. The martial arts world is filled with people who claim to be able to teach you to defeat multiple attackers. Let anyone who claims to be able to defeat more than one person at once publicly demonstrate it. The very first UFC's were filled with people who made these very claims. What was shown was that the very same people who claimed to be able to defeat 2,3, or even 4 attackers at once were unable to defeat even a single attacker. So thats food for thought. |
I also think that this is a good point as well. Multiple opponents don't come at you one at a time, like in the movies (if they know what they are doing). You might be able to get rid of one or two, but you have to do it fast, and then get the heck out of there.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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pittbullJudoka
KF Sempai
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 500
Styles: Ryu Kyu Kempo, Matsubayashi Shorin-Ryu, Japanese Jujitsu , Judo, Wrestling, Submission Wrestling, Hayastan, Mixed Martial Arts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Question for self defense |
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[quote="bushido_man96I also think that this is a good point as well. Multiple opponents don't come at you one at a time, like in the movies (if they know what they are doing). You might be able to get rid of one or two, but you have to do it fast, and then get the heck out of there.[/quote]
That's my main thought is get yourself cleaned from the initial attack and run for the hills. It's better to run away and live to fight another day. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12924
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, pittbullJudoka.
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1705
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Nice post MMA_Jim
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ShoriKid
Orange Belt
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 142
Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling(submission, Greco-Roman)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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Man I wish I had a Black Belt magazine from a year or two back. It contained a break down of statistics for various fights. Single combatant, multiple attackers, armed vs unarmed etc. It was both scary, and encouraging. Off the top of my trivia ladden head. About 40% of the time a person was able to defend themselves against a single attacker. About 33-34% of the time again mulitple attackers. The outcome didn't change that much for someone facing more than two attackers, with somewhere in the area of a 3-4% drop in success rates.
Enough with half remembered math. Makes my head hurt almost as much as a good round kick.
I've never been clear on pure BJJ's strength in a clench compaired to judo or wrestling, but I'd assume it was a bit less affect than those arts. But, on the bright side, those are their strengths. BJJ should have enough to help you there. Why is clench work important in multiple opponent fights? Because that's where someone is going to want to put you. Eventually you'll lose control of the range of the fight. When it goes to a grab of clinch situation, use your throws. The pavement will be harder than your fists and feet.
If you get taken down, take one with you. Establish guard, and do it in a hurry. You now have an involuntary shield. So long as you can keep him tight to you, your have a possible way to counter soccer kicks. And once you can find a safe way out, get to your feet. Keep your terrain and surroundings in mind. Use them, if possible, to keep pursuit down, and put a good hard mile between them and you. Once you've done that your either clear, or, assuming good conditioning on your part, their winded and your not and it starts over. I'd rather fight a tired man than a fresh one, if I have to fight at all.
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1705
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| ShoriKid wrote: |
Man I wish I had a Black Belt magazine from a year or two back. It contained a break down of statistics for various fights. Single combatant, multiple attackers, armed vs unarmed etc. It was both scary, and encouraging. Off the top of my trivia ladden head. About 40% of the time a person was able to defend themselves against a single attacker. About 33-34% of the time again mulitple attackers. The outcome didn't change that much for someone facing more than two attackers, with somewhere in the area of a 3-4% drop in success rates.
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You should be able to find this information on the US Justice Department website. May be under homeland security now though.
| ShoriKid wrote: |
I've never been clear on pure BJJ's strength in a clench compaired to judo or wrestling, but I'd assume it was a bit less affect than those arts. But, on the bright side, those are their strengths.
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Compared to Judo and Wrestling the average BJJ person would not have as good of a clinch. However, it should be more than enough to get the normal person to the ground.
Personally, if you're fighting "5 or more" attackers as described...your conditioning better be very good. Because you need to run very far and very fast. Find a busy place and go there. It's a situation you aren't likely to survive. Anyone who thinks they can is counting on techniques being much more effective than they really are.
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on the post.
