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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 676
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!
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 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| straightblast wrote: |
| I know a guy who did a high roundhouse in a street fight, he broke every finger in the other guys hand because he tried to catch it or block it. |
This Is an example that it can go either way but it should only be a first choice if you are you at it. Even then this particular kick is at s disadvantage from many many ways to strike Sombody.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Luther unleashed wrote: |
| TJ-Jitsu wrote: |
| Luther unleashed wrote: |
Bruce lee said "kicking a man in the head is like punching him in the foot"! The thing is in my opinion as a martial artist, and as a martial arts instructor, there IS a time and a place for everything.
Ronda Rousey was knocked out with this kick, no it's not the street but it's close. I have lost a lot of flexibility at 39, so my last option would be head pro any at this point but it would still be an option. |
Bruce Lee was way ahead of his time, but he wasnt perfect. He thought Muay thai wasnt a very practical fighting style, but its beaten every striking style there is since his time.
Ronda (and everyone else for that matter) getting knocked out just shows the effectiveness of a head kick. Of course, what most people are missing most are the relative questions that will determine if a head kick is a good idea:
-can you throw one (well?)
-how skilled is the person you're throwing it against?
When talking self defense, we're typically talking you're regular joe street fighter. Basically an untrained person, a scrub. If you're a trained fighter you can pretty much do whatever you want, headkicks included, while you crack jokes, and update your facebook status at the same time.
The closer the skill level of the two examples above, the more difficult and perhaps less practical an attempted head kick becomes. |
I disagree with your point that a street fighter is on the losing end easily in your scenerio. People are people so it's always up in the air but I'm going to be completely honest, many martial artists I have seen wouldn't hardly mop the floor with guys from my neighborhood. Where I'm from guys lift a lot of weights, they are strong, they are tough, and they aren't afraid. They don't have half of the respect as many martial artists and I don't see it going how you described it.
I don't think Bruce meant it shouldn't be used but the fact is that it is a fair comparison. A low kick has much more weight behind it, a mid section kick has much more reach with its use, a high kick is at a disadvantage. Also, in a street situation I assure you idlf a man isn't good, I mean fast and hard hitting, with a high kick then it's highly likely somebody will grab it.
If we make the assumption that the person using it is highly skilled I hear you, but FYI Brian (bushido man) is totally right. I did see the fight, and there were not a tremendous amount to of kicks thrown. It was about timing. Only a fool would walk up on a grappler and stick to head shots.
I say to adult students in particular "theres a time and a place for everything". I say it to more adults because adults seek what's practical, and challenge things mentally. It's important for me to help students see that what's practical depends on many things.
I have some basic grappling skills, but I bet I can take some people with my mobes, that makes them effective in some situations. A jiu-jitsu guy would make me a pretzel, not so effective. Not always about the techniques but how well you can execute them. |
I dont think we've got the same definition for "martial artist" to be honest with you. Allow me to clarify. Do you train full contact with others who also train full contact that are professional/amateur full contact fighters? If so my statement still stands. If not, then you're not really learning how to fight (at least not very well). So if your regular grind consists of heavy/full contact, yes you will find it amusing how hard that muscular guy doesnt hit, how fast he isnt, and how novice he actually is. Granted a low kick is easier and safer to throw than a high kick, but this is all dependant on who's throwing it. A well executed mid or high kick needs to be blocked before it can be caught, less the defender break whatever it is hes trying to catch it with. |
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 676
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Are you suggesting that one has to spar full contact to be a"real martial artist"?!?
There are many variables in training for conflict. Throwing strikes is very effective and non-complex but there are other parts like the ability to calm your nerves and breath, there is a lot more adrenalin in a serious situation compared to sparring, even heavy handed sparring. Also, in a fight people will typically grab you IF they they think they are stronger or have more skills, and full contact sparring won't help you there unless you mean grappling involved as well.
There is also the fact that we all get older. To a young man, a real martial artist is an effective fighter, to an older man it may be a person with a certain mind frame like calmness in chaos!
The actual timespan of a martial artist as a fighter is relatively small compared to the timespan of other faces of vein a martial artist. I jokingly call forms training "old people karate" because as I myself have gotten older and suffered from back injuries, forms training is the less aggressive training to my body like my back, and other parts. I'm 39 and I feel 39, I was also a mechanic and my hands often hurt from years of abuse. I can't hit a heavy bag like when I was 22. It's a lifelong journey and fighting is not the main focus of my current path. Therefore I'd say "YES" we have a different definition of a real martial artist!
On a purely self defense level I don't agree you have to block a kick to catch it. On a street level and not talking skilled fighters, if a strong street guy rushes in as you move to perform a roundhouse it's likely they will "smother" your kick. If that doesn't happen you may get lucky sure, but you could also get caught on one leg, and that's not always a good place to be. I'd use a roundhouse when I was younger, as my back has set me back (pun intended lol) I don't think I would unless it was to the knee or something, as you said it depends on the person doing it but the fact remains in a fight everything you do is risky.
To me, I don't mean to challenge your way of thinking but to me, the only risk free way to win is to walk away. I was a street kid who was very troubled. The biggest allure for me personally was the heart and strength it takes to walk away, not to fight. Fighting is easy and to me the real martial artist strives to lay down his ego and walk away. There will always be a time you could have to use it, but I think 99% of these things can be avoided! When I teach self defense I inform student that most often the best self defense move is the simplest to execute, and is the most direct way. If that happens to be a roundhouse to the head then great. Can you take a risk and succeed, yes. As long as you understand a roundhouse is more of a risk then a straight palm strike to the face I'm ok with it, that's what I would tell a student!
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Luther unleashed wrote: |
Are you suggesting that one has to spar full contact to be a"real martial artist"?!?
There are many variables in training for conflict. Throwing strikes is very effective and non-complex but there are other parts like the ability to calm your nerves and breath, there is a lot more adrenalin in a serious situation compared to sparring, even heavy handed sparring. Also, in a fight people will typically grab you IF they they think they are stronger or have more skills, and full contact sparring won't help you there unless you mean grappling involved as well.
There is also the fact that we all get older. To a young man, a real martial artist is an effective fighter, to an older man it may be a person with a certain mind frame like calmness in chaos!
The actual timespan of a martial artist as a fighter is relatively small compared to the timespan of other faces of vein a martial artist. I jokingly call forms training "old people karate" because as I myself have gotten older and suffered from back injuries, forms training is the less aggressive training to my body like my back, and other parts. I'm 39 and I feel 39, I was also a mechanic and my hands often hurt from years of abuse. I can't hit a heavy bag like when I was 22. It's a lifelong journey and fighting is not the main focus of my current path. Therefore I'd say "YES" we have a different definition of a real martial artist!
On a purely self defense level I don't agree you have to block a kick to catch it. On a street level and not talking skilled fighters, if a strong street guy rushes in as you move to perform a roundhouse it's likely they will "smother" your kick. If that doesn't happen you may get lucky sure, but you could also get caught on one leg, and that's not always a good place to be. I'd use a roundhouse when I was younger, as my back has set me back (pun intended lol) I don't think I would unless it was to the knee or something, as you said it depends on the person doing it but the fact remains in a fight everything you do is risky.
To me, I don't mean to challenge your way of thinking but to me, the only risk free way to win is to walk away. I was a street kid who was very troubled. The biggest allure for me personally was the heart and strength it takes to walk away, not to fight. Fighting is easy and to me the real martial artist strives to lay down his ego and walk away. There will always be a time you could have to use it, but I think 99% of these things can be avoided! When I teach self defense I inform student that most often the best self defense move is the simplest to execute, and is the most direct way. If that happens to be a roundhouse to the head then great. Can you take a risk and succeed, yes. As long as you understand a roundhouse is more of a risk then a straight palm strike to the face I'm ok with it, that's what I would tell a student! |
I'm on my phone, so bear with me I'll try to tackle this one at a time. Do I think one must spar full contact to be a martial artist? Well I suppose it depends on your definition of martial artist, so I'll just say you have to spar full contact on a semi regular basis if you want to learn how to fight....
In regards to the topic of kicking again I stand by my previous statements. Depends on the level of skill if he people involved. I'm also not talking exclusively of kicking either.... |
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 676
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:56 am Post subject: |
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I can respect that TJ-Jitsu as an opinion. I certainly do think that's a bar in full contact is something that can get one ready for a fight.
The fact of the matter is that some people just have a knack and ability to fight. When I was growing up outside of Chicago I watch a lot of Street kids simply know how to fight from fighting and if any of them took martial arts I certainly do think that even if they took a martial art from a school that is very little full contact Sparring that martial arts in general could help them elevate their ability to fight even though it was not teaching them through sparring Full Contact.
That being said I think it's obvious the benefits of Sparring and I always say that it is the most lifelike fighting situation I can give students so I am certainly agree I just do not think that one needs to spar full contact in order for it to help them handle themselves that's all. The more full contact you go The more it will obviously become more lifelike but that does not mean that it will not help you learn and that is really my only point and where we seem to have a slight difference of opinion.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| lordtariel wrote: |
| What about the legal ramifications of using kicks in a fight? Somebody told me a long time ago that punching someone is assault, but kicking them is assault with a deadly weapon. Of course, this could just be myth. Can anybody clarify this? |
My understanding is that kicking (or stomping) someone while they're on the ground can be considered deadly. Winding up for a hard kick to the head or ribs while someone is laying down is rather brutal.
And I agree with many others... a well-placed round kick can drop an opponent rather quickly, and it doesn't have to be high.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: |
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A few hard roundhouse kicks to the knee is a good starter, but needs to be quickly followed up with some heavy body and head shots ASAP.
As many don't know how to defend against a low roundhouse kick to the knee, it is a great way to disrupt the opponent, but by no means is it a show stopper, unless that person has knee issues.
If the first low roundhouse kick to the knee seems successful, then let loose another and another... it's a tree chopping technique... or opponent in this case. |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Context is everything with kicks or whatever other martial arts technique. A roundhouse kick has an optimum range and applicability. How effective it is depends on how well the kicker can kick, and more importantly how good said kicker is at knowing when and where to kick. To kick for maximum effect, all this must be done with great speed and timing. All of this can only be achieved with diligent and assiduous training.
Like the song says "kung fu (and martial arts in general) fighting has got to be fast as lightning. You've got to have expert timing" |
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on the post.
