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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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 Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: Se Jong comparisons |
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Here, we look a little bit into Se Jong tul of the ITF styles.
Here is an ITF version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbLf1KELSzo&feature=bf_prev&list=PLon1GNgZPzV52Ef_tAanXfcPXyraURw2I
There doesn't seem to be quite as much, or quite as exaggerated, I'd say, sine way to his form. But you still see the individualization of technique, for the most part. But, I don't think that is bad for this form, as it is a lot of one technique one way, then turn and do another technique in another direction, with really only one spot where you get a good chance to really combo some techniques, on the back end of the form.
Here is the version I do, and you'll see pretty directly where it goes awry in comparison with the ITF styles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCNaSl1b0fU&feature=autoplay&list=PLon1GNgZPzV52Ef_tAanXfcPXyraURw2I&index=2&playnext=1
From move 7 into move 8, move 8 goes back towards the start, a 180 degree turn, as opposed as the move to the right at a 90 degree angle in the other forms. But then, move 9, we do double guarding blocks in a middle/sitting/horse stance back toward the initial direction that was the front, then we get back on track with the spear hand thrust. Why, you ask? No idea. None at all.
Also a bit different is what I call the "shove down" move, where we really dip low into a squat to "push" someone to the ground, then come back up into the slow, two-handed push. From there, our double high/low block is a bit different, the high being an inner forearm block, and in closer to the body. Also, instead of double slow palm pressing blocks, like in Joong Gun, we do a single, right handed palm block, slow.
That's our TTA version. What's yours? (and no making fun of my bottom!)
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately I can't comment too much on Se Jong as on our syllabus it's a 5th dan form and I don't know it. Coincidentally though, last thurs my instructor made everyone run through it in class so I roughly know what's going on even if I don't understand the finer points.
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
]Here, we look a little bit into Se Jong tul of the ITF styles.
Here is an ITF version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbLf1KELSzo&feature=bf_prev&list=PLon1GNgZPzV52Ef_tAanXfcPXyraURw2I
There doesn't seem to be quite as much, or quite as exaggerated, I'd say, sine way to his form. But you still see the individualization of technique, for the most part. But, I don't think that is bad for this form, as it is a lot of one technique one way, then turn and do another technique in another direction, with really only one spot where you get a good chance to really combo some techniques, on the back end of the form. |
As I kinda mentioned in the Ge Baek thread, the provenance of these videos has to be examined to see why the person did the form that particular way. That video is from the Legacy series made by Gen. Choi back in the day and is kinda considered to be a bit old now or at least what you're now seeing in the style has changed a bit. If you looked at how people currently do it, I think you'd probably say there is more individualization of the techniques. (Here's the whole series anyway.) As a side note, all of the videos are of the world champions of the time and virtually all of the people you see in those videos are now masters and grandmasters.
Good job again on yours  Can see the power you're putting in.
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| From move 7 into move 8, move 8 goes back towards the start, a 180 degree turn, as opposed as the move to the right at a 90 degree angle in the other forms. But then, move 9, we do double guarding blocks in a middle/sitting/horse stance back toward the initial direction that was the front, then we get back on track with the spear hand thrust. Why, you ask? No idea. None at all. |
 I don't suppose it matters at all. Doesn't exactly have a bearing on anything really. From my short lesson on it, I find Se Jong has really weird stepping and movement anyway.
| Quote: |
| Also a bit different is what I call the "shove down" move, where we really dip low into a squat to "push" someone to the ground, then come back up into the slow, two-handed push. |
See now that's interesting. In our version of Se Jong that is a twin palm pressing block which is a technique I know already because it's seen in Choong Jang. We do it to catch or block a knee kick or a front kick / back heel kick kind of situation. If you have the condensed Encyclopedia, it's the block on the top of pg 226.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Also a bit different is what I call the "shove down" move, where we really dip low into a squat to "push" someone to the ground, then come back up into the slow, two-handed push. |
See now that's interesting. In our version of Se Jong that is a twin palm pressing block which is a technique I know already because it's seen in Choong Jang. We do it to catch or block a knee kick or a front kick / back heel kick kind of situation. If you have the condensed Encyclopedia, it's the block on the top of pg 226. |
Alas, I have the 15 volume set. I'll have to do some searching through it, find the form, and see what you are getting at here.
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Do you do Sam-il? Because it's also seen towards the end of that. Probably the most useful application is when say someone has grabbed you round the neck and is pulling you down to knee you in the stomach. The hands form like a cup which "catches" the knee.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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I was thinking in class today, do you guys learn the "official" meanings of the forms? Like how Se Jong is named after the King Se Jong, the 24 movements represent the 24 letters of the Korean alphabet, and the diagram represents scholar?
If you do have to learn them, must be pretty futile when what you're doing doesn't match up? I mean it doesn't really matter so much that what you're doing is different, but I bet for some students it causes some confusion if you didn't know about other versions of the form.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
I was thinking in class today, do you guys learn the "official" meanings of the forms? Like how Se Jong is named after the King Se Jong, the 24 movements represent the 24 letters of the Korean alphabet, and the diagram represents scholar?
If you do have to learn them, must be pretty futile when what you're doing doesn't match up? I mean it doesn't really matter so much that what you're doing is different, but I bet for some students it causes some confusion if you didn't know about other versions of the form. |
Kind of. Our instructor has posted up the names of all the forms we do, and what the names mean. Its a little blurb of each form name and meaning, move number, etc. I imagine its a cut-and-paste job from somewhere. Most of that information I've found on my own, reading or what not. Our instructor isn't so big on what the name means, but more so on proper performance of the forms in regards to how we do them. I'm not sure if he was ever really told what the meanings of the names were from his instructor, or if he just had to look them up. I'm guessing the latter.
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on the post.
