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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1674
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Treebranch wrote: |
| They never last long, because the rely on strength too much. It seems like technique gets put on the back burner with these guys. A good example was Hughes and St. Pierre fight. St. Pierre is a better tactician and a superior martial artist. |
| Treebranch wrote: |
| Those kind of guys seem like they take way too many hits and their tactics may work for them because of their toughness and strength. I don't it will work for most people. It's not an intelligent way to fight. Their careers will be short lived if they don't start incorporating some real skills. |
While I understand what you're saying...I feel you're wrong. Matt Hughes was a very poor example. Him losing to St. Pierre does not mean he's not a skilled martial artist. The guy is phenominal. He submitted Royce Gracie for goodness sake. While Royce is older and certainly not the best grappler in the world, I'm willing to bet there's NOBODY on this forum who could come close to beating him...MMA or Grappling. The reason Hughes was dominated was a matter of strategy. He chose to keep a left handed, very low wrestling style stance in order to avoid St. Pierre's stand up. It didn't work. They are both extremely skilled fighters. The fact that Hughs lost to him does not make him un skilled. Serra lost to St. Pierre also. Does that make him a brute that's unskilled? Tito Ortiz was a ground and pound guy...who also competed well in the ADCC.
If you want proof...simply go to any local MMA competitions. That's where you'll see a bunch of unskilled brutes. It usually consists of a bunch of muscle heads with a smattering of traditional martial artists and a few legit people that are serious about MMA. The serious guys dominate those competitions. And against someone like Hughes, St. Pierre, Serra and so on...they would get killed too.
My point is that you need to be sure to use the proper frame of reference. St. Pierre has made virtually everyone look like an amature. But that doesn't mean they are unskilled or are not martial artists. While it's more fun to watch the "tacticians," it does not mean the other guys aren't using a strategy of their own.
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2253
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, good points. Some strategy are more adaptive than others.
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"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Always go for the submission" |
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 981
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| That may be an individual case. I don't think that just because "ground and pound" seems like a simplistic tactic means that the fighters are not as skilled. It is a generalization, and an unfair one, I think. |
Good GnP relies heavily on positioning. Therefore take downs, throws, and groundwork are all a factor. If you try GnP on me without being in a good position I am going to put you in a pin, get up, submit you, etc.
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
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on the post.
