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baronbvp
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1132
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: JKD/MMA, Muay Thai, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery
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 Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Your support leg is so exposed. You saw how the MT fighter just swept the TKD guy's support leg and took him down. Also, it's easier to grab the kicking leg and hold it.
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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.
Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13977
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| baronbvp wrote: |
| Your support leg is so exposed. You saw how the MT fighter just swept the TKD guy's support leg and took him down. Also, it's easier to grab the kicking leg and hold it. |
Very true. The side kick can be a powerful kick, but it requires a lot of commitment.
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www.chiefswarpath.com |
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stejitsu
Yellow Belt
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 83
Location: Brookvale community centre, runcorn, cheshire
Styles: ng gar tien, wing chun, kung fu
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: |
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I never tire watching that video 
Its in my favorite sparring downloads folder
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50inches
Yellow Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
Styles: Karate/MMA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| go on www.youtube.com and type in "cung le" you will see that sidekicks work both against muay thai fighters and mma fights... but then again, not everybody is cung le |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13977
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:16 am Post subject: |
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I watched some Cung Le MMA fights. He looked pretty good. I like seeing him branch out to MMA, and other venues. He threw some good spin side kicks, but his lead leg side kicks did left him very exposed. he just wasn't taken advantage of.
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50inches
Yellow Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
Styles: Karate/MMA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| I think that considering the fact that sanshou fighters allow takedowns, and yet they throw sidekicks all the time, it should be obvious that sidekicks do not increse the chance of being taken down that much. |
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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In sparring, the side kick is one of my favorite techniques. However, in MMA fighting, I rarely use it. I train in a good BJJ school that has two world class wrestlers as well. They are very quick to perform takedowns off the sideways stance you're left in. And these are guys who aren't good enough to be in the UFC or Pride. I think the skill level of those professionals is extremely underated sometimes. It just takes one mistake and you could be on your back. The differance in this and Sanshou is in Sanshou you get back up. In MMA you get pounded or submitted. The roundhouse is a much safer option and the trade-off of "power" is well worth it.
Also, I think it's safe to say most sidekicks are targeted at the body. While it's possible to knock a person out with a body shot, it's not likely. The side kick can't be thrown rapidly enough to continuously punish the body and break down the opponent either. You're better off going with the low-line roundhouse kicks that will punish the legs and wear down the opponent without putting you in the poor position.
Additionally, the side kick has a tendency to "stick" to the target during follow through. This is why it can be caught easily. The video shows the how that can be a disadvantage. With the low-line round house you're using a whiping motion rather than a thrusting motion. This makes it far more difficult to grab and hold. I'm not saying that it can't or never happens, just that the percentages are in favor of the round house. And in a world where people are making money, your best bet is usually in following the high percentage shots most of the time. Afterall, you may see some spinning back kicks and hook kicks, but you can probably count on one hand how many you see in an individual match. They are low percentage kicks, so they are also thrown a low percentage of the time.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13977
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Well put, ps1. I notice the "sticking" problem of the side kick when I spar in class all the time. Even if you concentrate on ripping it back really quick, you still get that little bit of lag time from it.
I think the success rate of a side kick goes up the lower you go down on the body (knees, upper leg, etc.). There again, however, will be more likely to happen in self-defense, but not in the ring.
Just as a side note, do you think that side kicks to the upper leg would be legal in MMA competitions? Not that they would be as useful as the round kick, but would they be legal to do? Or would the risk to the knee be too great?
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I'm not extremely familiar with all the rules. But side kicking the upper leg would be much more damaging than hitting the torso. I would guess they aren't legal though. I'd have to check.
I watched a very old video of Pedro Sauer defeating Mr. Utah. He side kicks the legs (not the knee) in order to close the gap. But it doesn't look like the fight was sanctioned in any way.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13977
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| ps1 wrote: |
I'm not extremely familiar with all the rules. But side kicking the upper leg would be much more damaging than hitting the torso. I would guess they aren't legal though. I'd have to check.
I watched a very old video of Pedro Sauer defeating Mr. Utah. He side kicks the legs (not the knee) in order to close the gap. But it doesn't look like the fight was sanctioned in any way. |
I remember that video. I think that the side kick to the leg may have been for more of a stop-hit effect, and then close, as you mention, rather than a damaging attack. I could be wrong, though.
However, I wonder if the damage factor of an upper leg side kick would be enough to exchange it for the more reliable round kick. I think targeting with the round kick would be much easier.
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on the post.
