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ninjer
Yellow Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 90
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| 50inches wrote: |
| I think that considering the fact that sanshou fighters allow takedowns, and yet they throw sidekicks all the time, it should be obvious that sidekicks do not increse the chance of being taken down that much. |
San Shou doesnt grade all takedowns the same, and many could be considered slips.
The difference between takedowns in San Shou and MMA is that getting taken down in the first doesnt have the same consequences as the other. In San Shou, you know you're going to return to your feet. In MMA, if you mess up you're not only going to get taken down, you're going to get pounded and hurt bad- especially considering that most of these guys arent proficient ground fighters- if they make a simple mistake like that it could cost them the entire fight, not just a takedown.
Its kinda like comparing K-1 to MMA and arguing how effective head kicks are. You see alot more headkicks in K-1 because the consequence of slipping or messing up in K-1 is hardly as bad as it is in MMA. This is one reason why a good many of kickboxers that go from K-1 to MMA do not do well, or more correctly, have the same amount of success- as much as its the same its still very different.
Sidekicks dont increase the odds of you getting taken down, it decreases your ability to defend a takedown plain and simple. If you dont mind getting taken down you can throw them as much as you'd like. Otherwise, thats the trade off for the technique. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13452
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I have been watching the IFL today, and I did see a side kick get thrown, and it did land on the stomach. However, the bell dinged after the kick. And, it is the only one I saw thrown or landed so far.
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1131
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: JKD/MMA, Muay Thai, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: |
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You know, one thing I just recalled that my shorin ryu sensei used to say, was that the side kick is best used when kicking to the side. (Seems like a "duh," but follow me through this.)
He preferred to use the side kick to attack someone coming in from the side while you were otherwise engaged. He was big into multiple opponent street fighting defense. He rarely likes to pivot from any kind of forward stance into a side kick stance. He would almost exclusively use the side kick to lash out/hold off a second attacker who came in from either side as he was dealing with a primary threat. It's a quicker kick when you launch it to the side without a setup move.
Sometimes he did use the side kick against a single opponent, but he pretty much only used it when he could strike something juicy without a setup move. Sometimes it ends up being to the front or rear depending on relative positioning after other moves or defenses. For instance, I like to use it as a strong kick to the face of someone on their knees; not easily blocked.
So another reason you don't see it in MMA may be that they never have a second opponent. Does anyone else use side kicks this way?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13452
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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That does make sense, Baron. I can see where it would be much easier to do that way.
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1709
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: |
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The other day I watched Jeff Curran fight on the versus network. He threw 3 or 4 side kicks. But the guy he was fighting wasn't very good either.
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2260
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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That's a bad example. What about a Sanda fighter against a Muy Thai fighter? I've seen Sanda matches with side kicks that knock the guy out and off their feet. It's very effective. Look at Cung Le fights. Some people are just more skilled than others and can make spin kicks work. Cung Le is a great example of that.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13452
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it is a bad example. It is just one example. I have seen spin kicks work in MMA matches pretty well. However, I don't see a lot of straight-on, front leg side kicks, which is what I was pointing out. Cung Le does them well, but those are also at lower levels of MMA competition as well. In the UFC levels of competition, you don't see them as much.
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2260
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I don't think it is a bad example. It is just one example. I have seen spin kicks work in MMA matches pretty well. However, I don't see a lot of straight-on, front leg side kicks, which is what I was pointing out. Cung Le does them well, but those are also at lower levels of MMA competition as well. In the UFC levels of competition, you don't see them as much. |
I wish he would fight in UFC. He's probably one of the best strikers in MMA today. It's not every day you see a striker of his caliber.
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2260
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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A good side kick when the heel of the foot digs in is brutal.
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1709
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Treebranch wrote: |
| A good side kick when the heel of the foot digs in is brutal. |
No doubt!
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on the post.
