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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 988
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Small joint manipulation in JJJ and BJJ |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| lupus yonderboy wrote: |
The major reason is because small joint locks don't really work when controlling a LARGER RESISTING opponent.
They work fine in class, when people are compliant and everyone is safe.
But against an enraged man, larger than you, your wrist lock is just going to make him angrier. |
I have a younger brother who is quite large, and trying to do wrist locks on him is like trying to tackle an oak tree with a shoulder butt. In the end, you just get hurt. |
Is your younger brother often the 'test subject'?  What lock technique do you use? Might be better to just go for a punch....
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
~Theodore Roosevelt |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2263
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Let me let you in on a little secret. If you can control someone's balance you will win. You never try to put a lock on ....you find it. If you know how to do one, you'll see the opportunity and take it. If you don't know what to look for they won't work. Most people I spar with don't know how to defend against a wrist lock so I don't do them in practice. I don't want to injure them. There's way too much to a wrist lock to explain writing and it takes a long time to learn how to properly do them. That's why you don't see them being used, most people don't know how to make them work. No one that I know doubts their effectiveness anymore.
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"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Always go for the submission" |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13977
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Hey, Eric. With my "little" brother, I can try to put on any kind of limb-manipulating move, but he is just solid. A distraction is what I have to use on him, and it is the important part of the joint lock, I think.
I agree with Treebranch, and the distraction technique is what can help to break the balance, and then open up for finding a lock.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 988
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately I only have little sisters for siblings. Claiming to be able to defeat them in a daring match of fists in unarmed combat just doesn't sound all that impressive 
_________________
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
~Theodore Roosevelt |
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ying&yang
Purple Belt
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 513
Location: melbourne
Styles: JKD , and 15 others
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Small joint manipulation in JJJ and BJJ |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
While I have no experience with JJJ, supposedly it teaches more small joint manipulation as in comparison with its Brazilian offspring (which tends to focus on the larger joints). My questions are this:
A: Why was it taken out of BJJ?
B: What are the pros and cons of small joint locks?
C: Why is it not allowed in MMA? |
A: I think its because BJJ wanted a more agressive and full on approach.
B: The pros are that they can hurt alot and can be damaging at times. Cons are that a fighter can still fight with a small joint lock or even a broken one.
C: Im not too sure why it isn't allowed in MMA , but i still do it anyways. 
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I think that there is no 1 style , and that to truly become a great martial artist and person you must take information from where ever you can. |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2263
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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You realize you can break someone's elbow or even rip someone's shoulder joint with a wristlock throw right? Don't think of a wristlock merely as a pain move to submit someone. It's a brutal throw.
_________________
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Always go for the submission" |
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ying&yang
Purple Belt
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 513
Location: melbourne
Styles: JKD , and 15 others
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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yes that is correct , it is a brutal throw.
_________________
I think that there is no 1 style , and that to truly become a great martial artist and person you must take information from where ever you can. |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2263
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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It locks up the elbow and shoulder...it really sucks to be on the other end of that. It's a beautiful throw!
_________________
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Always go for the submission" |
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ying&yang
Purple Belt
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 513
Location: melbourne
Styles: JKD , and 15 others
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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lol yes that is true it does suck to be on the other end of it i have experiecned it lol
_________________
I think that there is no 1 style , and that to truly become a great martial artist and person you must take information from where ever you can. |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2263
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ying&yang wrote: |
| lol yes that is true it does suck to be on the other end of it i have experiecned it lol |
Just curious....Are you pulling the person over their balance the entire time for the throw. I always feel it work best when they are reaching beyond their balance and basically falling into the lock. I don't know if that sounds clear.
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"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Always go for the submission" |
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on the post.
