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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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 Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
| Safroot wrote: |
Anyone has a good resource about " tai sabaki " to understand more how to use it during sparring ?! Thanks in advance  |
Joko Ninomiya's Sabaki Method: Karate in the Inner Circle is a great book IMO. |
Thanks for the recommendation JR 137
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Sparring Questions |
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| Wastelander wrote: |
1. Depends--a lot of people do this by mistake, which is bad, but some people do it tactically, which can be useful. Most likely, you are doing it to absorb strikes? That can work fine, but you have to be aware of the different defensive and offensive pros and cons of the positioning you have chosen. Changing from a more square position to a side-on position can be beneficial for absorbing some strikes (especially kicks, in my experience), but it does put you in a position where you can't really utilize your normal rear-side tools, and leaves your back exposed. That said, it also gives you more reach with your lead-side tools, which can be useful, and it also sets you up for spinning techniques. Then, from the teaching perspective, as Dani pointed out, you can purposely put yourself in that position to condition your students to take advantage of openings, all the while working on your defense from an awkward position.
2. Depends on what your opponent does. If your opponent is a counter-fighter, you can probably just hang back and throw some feints to catch a breather. If they are more offensive, however, you will have to expend a lot of energy, either through evasive movement or thrust kicks, to maintain distance. Personally, in that situation, I look to grab a hold of my opponent and start using my kata techniques and Judo experience to smother and control. That can be exhausting, too, though, unless you're comfortable with doing it under pressure.
3. Essentially, your options are to stay out of their reach and try to get around them when they attack so you can counter, or close the gap to the point where they don't really have the space to do much of anything. Tai sabaki (and its lesser known component, tenshin) has already been mentioned, and is a very important tool in kumite. I've written about it rather recently on my site, actually, but to sum it up, you should not always move straight forward and straight back, on a level plane. You should try to move to angles, both offensively and defensively. You want to change your elevation, as well, and incorporate slight tilts in your body. These types of movements, at the right times, will help you avoid being hit, and will also allow you to get close enough to reach the taller fighter. You can also bait them to come closer by backing up just out of their reach, until they over-commit to an attack to try to catch you, at which point you can utilize evasion to get around their attack and counter while they are open. Bear in mind that there is no possible way to attack your opponent and NOT be open to some form of counter. The best you can do is minimize that possibility, and tai sabaki and tenshin are good ways of doing that. I also recommend attacking targets that are closer to you, such as the legs and body, more than the head, unless you can pull the head down (either by clinching, or pulling the arm, for example). |
Thanks Wastelander for the detailed in-depth advice as usual, much appreciated
Regarding the side-facing stance, yes I do it to absorb strikes when I start to get tired and it happens invoulantry most of the times. It's not a tactical move at all, I am just stepping my very first few steps in the sparring world !
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2734
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Sparring Questions |
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| Safroot wrote: |
| Wastelander wrote: |
1. Depends--a lot of people do this by mistake, which is bad, but some people do it tactically, which can be useful. Most likely, you are doing it to absorb strikes? That can work fine, but you have to be aware of the different defensive and offensive pros and cons of the positioning you have chosen. Changing from a more square position to a side-on position can be beneficial for absorbing some strikes (especially kicks, in my experience), but it does put you in a position where you can't really utilize your normal rear-side tools, and leaves your back exposed. That said, it also gives you more reach with your lead-side tools, which can be useful, and it also sets you up for spinning techniques. Then, from the teaching perspective, as Dani pointed out, you can purposely put yourself in that position to condition your students to take advantage of openings, all the while working on your defense from an awkward position.
2. Depends on what your opponent does. If your opponent is a counter-fighter, you can probably just hang back and throw some feints to catch a breather. If they are more offensive, however, you will have to expend a lot of energy, either through evasive movement or thrust kicks, to maintain distance. Personally, in that situation, I look to grab a hold of my opponent and start using my kata techniques and Judo experience to smother and control. That can be exhausting, too, though, unless you're comfortable with doing it under pressure.
3. Essentially, your options are to stay out of their reach and try to get around them when they attack so you can counter, or close the gap to the point where they don't really have the space to do much of anything. Tai sabaki (and its lesser known component, tenshin) has already been mentioned, and is a very important tool in kumite. I've written about it rather recently on my site, actually, but to sum it up, you should not always move straight forward and straight back, on a level plane. You should try to move to angles, both offensively and defensively. You want to change your elevation, as well, and incorporate slight tilts in your body. These types of movements, at the right times, will help you avoid being hit, and will also allow you to get close enough to reach the taller fighter. You can also bait them to come closer by backing up just out of their reach, until they over-commit to an attack to try to catch you, at which point you can utilize evasion to get around their attack and counter while they are open. Bear in mind that there is no possible way to attack your opponent and NOT be open to some form of counter. The best you can do is minimize that possibility, and tai sabaki and tenshin are good ways of doing that. I also recommend attacking targets that are closer to you, such as the legs and body, more than the head, unless you can pull the head down (either by clinching, or pulling the arm, for example). |
Thanks Wastelander for the detailed in-depth advice as usual, much appreciated
Regarding the side-facing stance, yes I do it to absorb strikes when I start to get tired and it happens invoulantry most of the times. It's not a tactical move at all, I am just stepping my very first few steps in the sparring world ! |
That's kind of what I figured. Since it's natural, you can try to adapt it to become a tactical component of your fighting, or you can try to override it with training. The choice is yours.
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Sparring Questions |
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| Wastelander wrote: |
| you can try to adapt it to become a tactical component of your fighting, or you can try to override it with training. The choice is yours. |
I think I will try to master the basics first as much as I can then I will try to use it as a tactical component later on the journey.
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Sparring Questions |
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| Safroot wrote: |
I had really good sparring session last night (6 x 2min sessions) and I have 3 questions:
1- Is it normal to give your opponent your side while he/she is attacking ? I have found myself doing this couple of times invoulantry? |
It may be that you are trying to turtle up somewhat? Just absorbing the blows, however, is not a good idea. When you find yourself doing this, you should try to get yourself to move to a better position. I like going forward, personally. When you turn side-on, you take away the number of weapons you present to your opponent. Some folks can make this work; Bill Wallace comes to mind. But not everyone can be Bill Wallace, and he did it mainly because of an injury that didn't allow him to use one leg as well as the other. My advice would be to start training yourself to not do it.
| Quote: |
| 2- what is your strategy if you feel really exhausted & tired and can't attack your opponent or even block his/her attacks ? |
I think you should be able to keep your hands up and be able to move and defend at the very least. If you can't, then you've probably sparred past your conditioning level and need to rest a bit. Its hard to train well when you are exhausted, but at times its important to learn how to push yourself through it. Its likely that your conditioning level needs to come up.
| Quote: |
| 3-What's the best strategy when sparring with a taller opponent ? is it only kicks as my punches didn't even reach his body & I was exposing my head trying to get a good punch ? |
This is tricky, and everyone will approach it differently. If you are fast and can set up angles and dart in and out, it likely won't matter much if you decide to kick or punch. It also depends on your body structure. You might be shorter, but your legs could be a similar length to theirs still, in which case you would have the same reach with the legs. I'm assuming your legs are shorter than this tall opponent you have, so we won't assume the latter. The key is going to be working angles to get inside, using good footwork. If you can get to angle and line up with their centerline, then you can attack forward and they have to adjust to meet the angle you've created. If you are good defensively, then you can set the opponent up with fakes and feints and use blocking and counterattacking to get inside. A lot of this will come with time spent drilling and sparring.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:15 am Post subject: Re: Sparring Questions |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Safroot wrote: |
I had really good sparring session last night (6 x 2min sessions) and I have 3 questions:
1- Is it normal to give your opponent your side while he/she is attacking ? I have found myself doing this couple of times invoulantry? |
It may be that you are trying to turtle up somewhat? Just absorbing the blows, however, is not a good idea. When you find yourself doing this, you should try to get yourself to move to a better position. I like going forward, personally. When you turn side-on, you take away the number of weapons you present to your opponent. Some folks can make this work; Bill Wallace comes to mind. But not everyone can be Bill Wallace, and he did it mainly because of an injury that didn't allow him to use one leg as well as the other. My advice would be to start training yourself to not do it.
| Quote: |
| 2- what is your strategy if you feel really exhausted & tired and can't attack your opponent or even block his/her attacks ? |
I think you should be able to keep your hands up and be able to move and defend at the very least. If you can't, then you've probably sparred past your conditioning level and need to rest a bit. Its hard to train well when you are exhausted, but at times its important to learn how to push yourself through it. Its likely that your conditioning level needs to come up.
| Quote: |
| 3-What's the best strategy when sparring with a taller opponent ? is it only kicks as my punches didn't even reach his body & I was exposing my head trying to get a good punch ? |
This is tricky, and everyone will approach it differently. If you are fast and can set up angles and dart in and out, it likely won't matter much if you decide to kick or punch. It also depends on your body structure. You might be shorter, but your legs could be a similar length to theirs still, in which case you would have the same reach with the legs. I'm assuming your legs are shorter than this tall opponent you have, so we won't assume the latter. The key is going to be working angles to get inside, using good footwork. If you can get to angle and line up with their centerline, then you can attack forward and they have to adjust to meet the angle you've created. If you are good defensively, then you can set the opponent up with fakes and feints and use blocking and counterattacking to get inside. A lot of this will come with time spent drilling and sparring. |
Thanks for the great advice Budisho_man96
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Let me just say this, and btw, you've already received a treasure trove of solid advice from many here, There's one thing that I want to add, and forgive me if I'm repeating someone else's already given suggestions here, but it bears to be repeated...
Angle(s)!!
Attacking/Defending on angled planes isn't always done in the course of Kumite. More than likely, direct attacks/defenses are what's chosen over angles because the direct approaches are more familiar/comfortable to execute than angles. Why? Learning to live within the angles, and outside of the direct approaches, take some getting use to across the board.
Shindokan lives within those angles much more than the direct planes. We'll only go direct if it presents itself, but only then. The direct planes are expected more often, whereas the angle planes aren't.
To reach the target, one has to move to the target. Direct planes, well, direct, and as the old idiom states..."The shorter path from point
Angles are the indirect path, albeit, the shortest distance between two points.
For example, if I'm 4 feet from my target, you, for example, then, it's safe to assume that that 4 feet can't be shortened, I mean, 4 feet is still 4 feet. However, I can actually shorten that 4 foot gap by angling forward towards my selected target. That 4 feet turns into...well...4 feet, however, it's an indirect 4 feet, and not a direct 4 feet.
That indirect angle does, for the most part, shorten the distance to said target, depending on the degree of the angle. This might beg me to another question..
When is a straight line not the shortest distance between two points?
A great picture of this can be seen at any football game. Running Backs, for example, can run either straight, direct in our case here, or they can run a kind of hypotenuse angle towards the end zone, indirect in our case here.
Most might suggest that the fastest way to get to the end zone would be to dash straight from the 50 yard line, for example, to the promised land because, to them, the more direct route is that idiom coming to life.
However, as the running back streaks from that same 50 yard line to one of the far corners of that same end zone, is that indirect angle of least resistance, in which, that indirect angle, coming to life, ended up being the shortest distance after all.
Isn't Kumite a blast?? It is, once you figure out that there's more than one way to skin a cat!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Let me just say this, and btw, you've already received a treasure trove of solid advice from many here, There's one thing that I want to add, and forgive me if I'm repeating someone else's already given suggestions here, but it bears to be repeated...
Angle(s)!!
Attacking/Defending on angled planes isn't always done in the course of Kumite. More than likely, direct attacks/defenses are what's chosen over angles because the direct approaches are more familiar/comfortable to execute than angles. Why? Learning to live within the angles, and outside of the direct approaches, take some getting use to across the board.
Shindokan lives within those angles much more than the direct planes. We'll only go direct if it presents itself, but only then. The direct planes are expected more often, whereas the angle planes aren't.
To reach the target, one has to move to the target. Direct planes, well, direct, and as the old idiom states..."The shorter path from point
Angles are the indirect path, albeit, the shortest distance between two points.
For example, if I'm 4 feet from my target, you, for example, then, it's safe to assume that that 4 feet can't be shortened, I mean, 4 feet is still 4 feet. However, I can actually shorten that 4 foot gap by angling forward towards my selected target. That 4 feet turns into...well...4 feet, however, it's an indirect 4 feet, and not a direct 4 feet.
That indirect angle does, for the most part, shorten the distance to said target, depending on the degree of the angle. This might beg me to another question..
When is a straight line not the shortest distance between two points?
A great picture of this can be seen at any football game. Running Backs, for example, can run either straight, direct in our case here, or they can run a kind of hypotenuse angle towards the end zone, indirect in our case here.
Most might suggest that the fastest way to get to the end zone would be to dash straight from the 50 yard line, for example, to the promised land because, to them, the more direct route is that idiom coming to life.
However, as the running back streaks from that same 50 yard line to one of the far corners of that same end zone, is that indirect angle of least resistance, in which, that indirect angle, coming to life, ended up being the shortest distance after all.
Isn't Kumite a blast?? It is, once you figure out that there's more than one way to skin a cat!!
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Thanks for the great advice sensei8. Will try to work on the Angles & might get help from my sensei as well 👍🏻
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Your more than welcome, Safroot!! You'll be just fine; just stay at it and you'll figure it all out...in time!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Your more than welcome, Safroot!! You'll be just fine; just stay at it and you'll figure it all out...in time!!
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_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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on the post.
