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omnifinite
Purple Belt
Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 524
Location: Northern VA
Styles: Hapkido | Kempo | Jujitsu
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 Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:13 pm Post subject: suggestion for this category |
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I think it's basically agreed upon that it's not the art alone but the skill of the fighter, the circumstances, good old-fashioned luck, and more that decide the outcome of a fight, and that topics like "If x art and y art had to fight, who would win?" all have the same answer and are a waste of time. I think this category could use a sticky note like the one in the Serious Discussion category reminding people of that before they start new threads. It could also explain what types of art vs. art topics are constructive and encourage more of them. What do you think?
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1st Dan Hapkido
Colored belts in Kempo and Jujitsu |
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Tobias_Reece
Brown Belt
Joined: 26 May 2001
Posts: 691
Location: Leeds, England
Styles: Matayoshi Okinawawn Kobudo, Shotokan Karate
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Finally - someone with some sense.
Thats stop this rubbish about art vs art NOW!!!!!
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"You Are Never Given A Dream Without Also Being Given The Power To Make It True. You May Have To Work For It, However"
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Kensai
Black Belt
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Britain
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I agree.
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LeaF
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 1012
Location: North of the 49
Styles: Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Amen, well said omnifinite!
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Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo, 17 Years Old 1st kyu Brown Belt in in Goju Ryu Karate-do, & Shodan in Okinawan Kobudo
Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.
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Jade_Lotus
Orange Belt
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 129
Location: Western US
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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have any of you even bothered to read this, I suggest you do, you may learn something.
http://www.karateforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4389
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Patrick
KF Administrator
Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 15500
Location: Harbinger, NC, U.S.A.
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omnifinite
Purple Belt
Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 524
Location: Northern VA
Styles: Hapkido | Kempo | Jujitsu
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2002 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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See, that would make a great sticky  .
I didn't say the art had nothing to do with it ("... it's not the art alone..."), but there are thousands of variables outside of the art... the fighter's skill and mentality of course, but also terrain, weather, clothing, element of surprise, who has the sun in their face, who ate breakfast that morning, etc etc. All sorts of factors could make certain arts more or less effective. The scale is always tipping in too many ways to comprehend. The superiority of one's arsenal isn't always enough.
A TKD-er could slip mid-kick on a slope covered with sand and gravel while a BJJ-er could find those rocks poking into someone's back that much more useful. Thinking about things like that could remind us what sorts of situations handicap us before we find ourselves in them, and we'd be better for it.
A lot of the threads in here are so oversimplified that people just don't have a way to answer them.
| Patrick wrote: |
| And what types of art vs. art topics are constructive to you, omnifinite? |
I think it would be constructive to discuss why certain arts contain more tools for survival within them in specific situations and what those tools are. Though what's tricky about that is everyone has a different idea of exactly what makes up a certain art (like their teachers before them going back for decades or centuries) and a lot of arts have countless substyles underneath them. But if that was kept in mind a lot could still come out of those discussions.
It also might be constructive to talk about the sorts of techniques in one art that counter the techniques in another art well, or the sorts of movements you could probably expect when faced with an attacker using a different art. It could be useful to know how to defend yourself better against people you know are trained in something. Ideally you should be able to defend yourself from anyone anywhere, but I'm sure a lot of us aren't at that point yet. Chances are you wouldn't expect a boxer to come at you the same way a muay thai fighter would, and maybe someone that hadn't reached a level of mastery yet (I'm certainly not even 5% there) could find that knowledge useful.
That's the sort of topic that catches my eye, anyway.
It's hard to say. I figured there were guidelines for this category decided somewhere already.
Due to its nature the topic might just be plagued with generalizations no matter what, but I thought maybe there'd be a way to minimize them.
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Athorn4941
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 101
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Kensai
Black Belt
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Britain
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Well said again omnifinite.
Lets be clear on this, all styles are great, also ALL styles are complete. If a great master went out fought lots of people just to prove the effectivness of the style, then he is no master.
A wise man once said, "The great masters solve their problems before drawing the sword".
Also, an X vs Y situation cant be comprihended due to the very nature of combat itself. You can drill for 10 years a particular block or counter, but the nature of combat will always throw what one least expects. The very essence of budo is to be ready. Not to blow your trumpet saying my style is better than others, blah, blah!
We are all brothers and sisters in Martial arts. We do not fight each other. There is not one style of this earth that openly says go hurt others. If one did, then it is no longer a style.
I think that art vs art should be re thought, as it only begets style bashing.
Art of the ninja,
A Tai chi master would not fight, if he did, then he would take the Yank boxers punch, then pat him on the shoulder and take him for a pint down the pub. Tai Chi is not about fighting, its about not fighting.
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Tobias_Reece
Brown Belt
Joined: 26 May 2001
Posts: 691
Location: Leeds, England
Styles: Matayoshi Okinawawn Kobudo, Shotokan Karate
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:45 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the post, but as many of you are saying, this forum just seems like an excuse for idio......no wait.....people to post pointless things.
MA is correct in what he has wrote, but no-one is actually doing this. Its just ignorant art bashing!!!! LOL
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Principal Kobudo Instructor & Owner
West Yorkshire Kobudo Academy
2nd Kyu (Matayoshi Okinawan Kobudo, IOKA UK) |
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on the post.
