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tallgeese
KF Sensei
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 5206
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, BJJ, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing
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 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ps1 wrote: |
| Don't aim to be fast. Aim to be smooth. Smooth is fast. |
This!
It's the best advice in regard to matters such as this. In specific reference to the attributes you mention, one is useless without the other. However, everything has to be driven by smooth action. Forced speed leads to sloppy technique which lends itself to a huge lack of accuracy. However, if one never strives to drive those skills further, you'll never actually make this effective in live combat.
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ShoriKid
Brown Belt
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 739
Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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If fast is smooth, smooth is slow, then slow is fast. Tell that to someone and watch their brain implode. Never worry about speed. Correct technique builds fluidity. Take care of that and speed will happen.
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Kisshu fushin, Oni te hotoke kokoro. A demon's hand, a saint's heart. -- Osensei Shoshin Nagamine |
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evergrey
Brown Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Posts: 734
Styles: kyokushin
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Technique, then speed, then power, and always... RELAX.
That's what my instructors tell me, anyway. Trying to actually get there, haha!
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http://kyokushinchick.blogspot.com/
"If you can fatally judo-chop a bull, you can sit however you want." -MasterPain, on why Mas Oyama had Kyokushin karateka sit in seiza with their clenched fists on their thighs. |
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1054
Styles: Kudo (Kyokushin and Judo, unaffiliated with KIF)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| As the renown Massad Ayoob once said - If you can't hit what you're aiming at then even if you're faster you will still most likely lose. Granted he''s talking about firearms but this still applies to self protection. Hitting the right target can often be more important than just hitting any target. You want that "kill shot" so to speak. |
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yamesu
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 973
Location: Oceania <-> Asia
Styles: Kyokushin. JediMantre.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| TheKarateAngler wrote: |
| yamesu wrote: |
Agreed.
I believe this could be thought of as the Ma-ai concept. Its about tying together all of speed, accuracy, power and distancing to achieve a "perfect hit" (if there is such a thing).
Bruce Lee (in teh Tao of Jeet Kun Do) notes an interesting point about speed, saying that people who just strike continually with speed often end up 'blocking' themselves.... |
Interested by what you mean when you say they 'block' themselves.
Is it to do with them continually striking and so not seeing the chance for something more effective? |
I guess its doen to individual interpretation of what Bruce meant - I personally have always imagined it as over-reliance on speed in hust throwing fast combinations or fast random strikes means that the person does not have time to account for their opponents cadence, distance and movement. In effect the hits are liekly to eventually end up being blocked (abet unintentionally) or not hitting the right target.
Anyone who has ever had a punch met with an elbow will know what I mean...
Kuma has hit the nail on the head (with correct speed....  )
Not being able to make a hit effective means it is pretty much useless. Speed is only one factor in this. Even if someone is faster than you, you can still win by outsmarting them with proper distancing.
It is very rare two fighters will have the same speed, so matching cadence (relative speeds) with one another is a key issue in sparring.
I really think the Tao of Jeet Kun Do does a wonderful job of explaining this concept. Cadence, timing and distancing etc etc.
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"We did not inherit this earth from our parents.
We are borrowing it from our children." |
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sensei8
KF Sempai
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 5282
Location: Owasso, OK and Van Nuys, CA
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Target Acquisition doesn't need nor desire speed and/or power alone. I see, and I've seen to many MAists have the speed/power but it pales in significance if ones hitting just anywhere, i.e. side of my arm/shoulder, versus my solar plexus, for example.
Too many quick slaps here and there w/o focus during a demonstration, for example, impresses the layperson, but ineffectiveness is easily recognized by non-laypersons.
Example....
This is not meant to say anything negative about the instructor in this link, and forget about the subject being a knife, but instead, watch his slapping movements and apply it to what I'm trying to convey...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEUZg_YaM5o
Ineffective Target Acquisition doesn't affect an attacker!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1054
Styles: Kudo (Kyokushin and Judo, unaffiliated with KIF)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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This is one of my favorite videos in regards to demonstrating why target selection is so important.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH13kYFzfFk
As you can see the fellow in black is just throwing punches blindly. The karateka counters with one strong punch to the solar plexus which drops his opponent and ends the fight right then and there. Even though the karateka was hit maybe 20 times none of them were properly targeted thus did not do any damage. On the other hand his one punch did what 20 punches from his opponent's could not do. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 23082
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE Combatives
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| ps1 wrote: |
| Don't aim to be fast. Aim to be smooth. Smooth is fast. |
I was told by an Aikidoka once, "slow and smooth, smooth is faster." Much like you stated above. Make sense, and it works.
Some people are born fast, and some can aquire a bit more speed than they start out with, but much of it is genetic predisposition. Being accurate, on the other hand, is something everyone can train to improve on.
I vote accuracy first. Speed will come with time. And even more than speed, I think timing would be more disirable a trait to command. Having good timing can make you appear faster than you really are.
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on the post.
