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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The Pred wrote: |
| So if the person chosen is a Nanadan. Do they do the hachidan testing, then a week later the kudan testing? Just so it seems they didn't skip a rank? |
I'd never allow that to happen, and as a matter of fact, no one in the Executive Team would allow that either!! So...NO!! Not a possibility! No matter who that student is, they will be invited to a Testing Cycle when that time is appropriate, and not anytime sooner...and no one's guaranteed any rank!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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The Pred
Green Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 385
Styles: Goju Ryu
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| The Pred wrote: |
| So if the person chosen is a Nanadan. Do they do the hachidan testing, then a week later the kudan testing? Just so it seems they didn't skip a rank? |
I'd never allow that to happen, and as a matter of fact, no one in the Executive Team would allow that either!! So...NO!! Not a possibility! No matter who that student is, they will be invited to a Testing Cycle when that time is appropriate, and not anytime sooner...and no one's guaranteed any rank!!
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Okay cool, hope everything works out.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| The Pred wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| The Pred wrote: |
| So if the person chosen is a Nanadan. Do they do the hachidan testing, then a week later the kudan testing? Just so it seems they didn't skip a rank? |
I'd never allow that to happen, and as a matter of fact, no one in the Executive Team would allow that either!! So...NO!! Not a possibility! No matter who that student is, they will be invited to a Testing Cycle when that time is appropriate, and not anytime sooner...and no one's guaranteed any rank!!
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Okay cool, hope everything works out.
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Yes, thank you, The Pred...I too, hopes everything works out in the long run. The Student Body and the SKKA/Hombu must be taken care of if a future has any hopes or dreams of any longevity.
In addition,
I resent the implication that our governing body harbors any impropriety, whether direct or indirectly, and that we're without any moral compass at all!! For us to do this and that, would show a vastly lack of integrity across the board.
Our Dai-Soke was the one and only last Kudan attainment thru being earned through the By-Laws absolutes by being promoted to Kaicho by our Soke. At this promotion, there were no votes, and indeed, this was Soke's supreme authority to do so, and it was without contestation!!
We've no interest in having a bunch of Kudans!! No!! Kudan and Judan should be the two most rarest of the rarest in the MA!! I didn't expect to ever become a Kudan, and I still resent ever passing that Testing Cycle. In my heart of hearts, I'm still Hachidan, and not Kudan. I never wanted to earn any rank that would imply that I'm equal to Dai-Soke, in which, I'm the furthest thing from that...my loyalty to Dai-Soke is deeper and more than one could ever understand, and to the day I die, I never wanted my Kudan, and I still don't want my Kudan. But, there it is, and I can't change that on paper and the like.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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The Pred
Green Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 385
Styles: Goju Ryu
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="sensei8"]
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Yes, thank you, The Pred...I too, hopes everything works out in the long run. The Student Body and the SKKA/Hombu must be taken care of if a future has any hopes or dreams of any longevity.
In addition,
I resent the implication that our governing body harbors any impropriety, whether direct or indirectly, and that we're without any moral compass at all!! For us to do this and that, would show a vastly lack of integrity across the board.
Our Dai-Soke was the one and only last Kudan attainment thru being earned through the By-Laws absolutes by being promoted to Kaicho by our Soke. At this promotion, there were no votes, and indeed, this was Soke's supreme authority to do so, and it was without contestation!!
We've no interest in having a bunch of Kudans!! No!! Kudan and Judan should be the two most rarest of the rarest in the MA!! I didn't expect to ever become a Kudan, and I still resent ever passing that Testing Cycle. In my heart of hearts, I'm still Hachidan, and not Kudan. I never wanted to earn any rank that would imply that I'm equal to Dai-Soke, in which, I'm the furthest thing from that...my loyalty to Dai-Soke is deeper and more than one could ever understand, and to the day I die, I never wanted my Kudan, and I still don't want my Kudan. But, there it is, and I can't change that on paper and the like.
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If for some reason all the hachidan's retired at the same time. Could by-laws get amendended to where Hachidan is the highest? |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| The Pred wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
Yes, thank you, The Pred...I too, hopes everything works out in the long run. The Student Body and the SKKA/Hombu must be taken care of if a future has any hopes or dreams of any longevity.
In addition,
I resent the implication that our governing body harbors any impropriety, whether direct or indirectly, and that we're without any moral compass at all!! For us to do this and that, would show a vastly lack of integrity across the board.
Our Dai-Soke was the one and only last Kudan attainment thru being earned through the By-Laws absolutes by being promoted to Kaicho by our Soke. At this promotion, there were no votes, and indeed, this was Soke's supreme authority to do so, and it was without contestation!!
We've no interest in having a bunch of Kudans!! No!! Kudan and Judan should be the two most rarest of the rarest in the MA!! I didn't expect to ever become a Kudan, and I still resent ever passing that Testing Cycle. In my heart of hearts, I'm still Hachidan, and not Kudan. I never wanted to earn any rank that would imply that I'm equal to Dai-Soke, in which, I'm the furthest thing from that...my loyalty to Dai-Soke is deeper and more than one could ever understand, and to the day I die, I never wanted my Kudan, and I still don't want my Kudan. But, there it is, and I can't change that on paper and the like.
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If for some reason all the hachidan's retired at the same time. Could by-laws get amendended to where Hachidan is the highest? |
Absolutely!! After all, that's the purpose for amendments! However, I don't expect all of the Hachidan's to retire at the same time.
We've not abolished Kudan or Judan from our ranking structure. Judan was, at one time, reserved for Soke types only!! Seeing that we've abolished Soke types all together, Judan isn't attainable!! As was Kudan, for Kaicho, AT ONE TIME.
Ever since my Kudan promotion through a rigorous Testing Cycle, Kudan is in the By-Laws in the manner of which I fought so hard against. However, if the Term Limits pass, then, Kudan will only be earned through a Testing Cycle. One final note, we're of the same mindset on one thing...Kudan Testing Cycles shall still be quite rare, and not earned like one would earn a pat on the back!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Term Limits!! |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
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2008|Kaicho Takahashi Sensei is elected the new Dai-Soke of the Shindokan Hombu
*Soke passes away of natural causes; he was 91 years old
*I’m elected Kaicho and Chief Instructor of the Shindokan Hombu
2009|Earned Hachidan; Shindokan Saitou-ryu Kobudo
2010|Dai-Soke passes away after suffering two separate strokes that year; he was 78 years old
*I retire from being the Kaicho and Chief Instructor of the Shindokan Hombu; promoted to Kaiso [Advisor]
*Iwao Takahashi, eldest son of Dai-Soke, is elected to San Dai-Soke, promoted to Judan
*San Dai-Soke closes the Hombu and attempts to moves it to Nanjo, Okinawa
*Established NEW Shindokan Hombu; new charter, proxy, and the like approved
*San Dai-Soke stripped of his authority and given a lifetime expulsion via a referendum by the new Hombu
2011|Re-elected as Kaicho; stepped down from Kaiso appointment |
With the excerpt from my Golden Anniversary, I'd like to draw attention to the bolded type above, more specifically, concerning my Kaicho appointment(s).
Within the SKKA By-Laws and the like, there's no existence with lifetime appointments. Two ways to rescind any elected appointment is either voluntarily or involuntarily with cause!! Supposedly, there's now a third way to rescind any elected appointment...
Term Limits!!
Thusly, I suppose that Term Limits might be under the same umbrella as voluntarily or involuntarily, depending on just how one might view either. Being put to pasture, isn't always a welcomed part of ones life, it being an involuntarily act. However, stepping down isn't always too welcomed either, it being a voluntarily act.
Well, it's like my fellow upper hierarchy's have found that Term Limits might be the way for the SKKA/Hombu to reinvent itself. Change is inevitable, and albeit, needed from time to time. Otherwise, a willingness to refuse change, ushers in an untimed death to the entity.
So, without speaking about the legalities and all in any great detail, after all, it came be quite boring, the legal language and such...so much so, that one would rather have a root canal without any anesthesia of any type.
Let's speak very briefly about my elected appointment as Kaicho [President].
The By-Laws speak about the recipient of that appointment being automatically promoted to Kudan, without any delays, immediately!! I've never agreed with that, and I still don't agree with that, and that's why I refused that more times than I care to remember. My Kudan, was awarded to me, but only after I passed a Testing Cycle; HOWEVER, this was in the absence of Dai-Soke, due to him having passed away many years earlier. That still leaves a bad taste in my mouth...even now!
Kaicho is in charge of everything, and anything, related to the SKKA/Hombu; the buck stops there, and at times, many decisions made by the Kaicho is without contestation!! Because the SKKA/Hombu is a business, daily operational concerns at the Executive Administrative level, are dealt with by the Kaicho. Kaicho's primary concerns are:
1) The Student Body
2) Business Success
Kaicho's leadership role also entails being ultimately responsible for all day-to-day Management decisions and for implementing the SKKA's/Hombu's long and short term plans. Kaicho acts as a direct liaison between the Student Body and Management, and therefore, communicates to the Student Body on behalf of the SKKA's/Hombu's Executive Team, which is comprised of General Affairs Department, Instructor Department, Administrative Department, and Regents, as well as any/all sub-level departments.
To the crux of the whole matter.
I'm Kaicho until I'm no longer the Kaicho per the powers that be, of which, I'm at the top of the food chain. Term Limits!! Here's the proposal, as of this very mornings pow-wow, with the other food chain members.
Tada...The Kaicho, for the moment, will...
Hold said elected office for ONLY 2 years!! I've been Kaicho for 7-8 years, and guess what, if this proposal becomes a reality, I'll no longer be Kaicho, until I'm reelected at a future date, and believe it or not, I'm fine with that. Anything for the betterment of the Student Body and the SKKA/Hombu.
Tricky thing is that as part of the proposal, once a sitting Kaicho is finished with their term, they can't be placed on a ballot for one full term. In short, once I've completed my current term as Kaicho, I can't be placed on the next ballot in any shape, way, and/or form. I'm fine with that too!!
Idle minds and the like have nothing else to do with themselves, so, they come up with this, which I too, am fine with. Wondering out loud if this years POTUS election and the like in the USA gave them the idea. It sure wasn't my idea, but, I'm willing, for the betterment of the Student Body and the SKKA/Hombu, to accept and embrace the change.
Continued meetings/conversations over this proposal will take us to and through this years Annual Testing Cycle this June/July at the Hombu. This will give us plenty of time to fine tune AND adopt the proposal, if it passes several key votes, that is.
Any thoughts, or whatever else??
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Sensei8,
A few questions come to mind;
1. If your bylaws state that the Kaicho is immediately promoted to Kudan without delay it comes to mind that every 2 years someone new is going to be promoted to Kudan. If this is the case you are going to have the possibility of having top heavy ranking within the organization.
2. what if all of the qualified hierarchy is voted out and you are now electing Godans or Yondans to be Kaicho. Pretty sweet deal to be promoted to Kudan but is this realistic? Does the rank fall off after you are voted out?
3. If you are voted out every two years and not allowed to be voted back in for a term, what happens if the voting body realizes it's made a mistake? Do they vote yet another in his place?
Opinion - I fail to see the benefit of this structure. If they want 2 year term limits to have a vote, so be it. Great idea in my mind. It affords the organization an opportunity to make sure that no one turns into a dictator and reduces the chances that one individual can possibly screw things up with bad decisions. However if the student body and the board see benefit to the current Kaicho and are happy with him, it's seems to me to be detrimental to the organization to remove him for a full term and possibly get someone less qualified for the position.
Unfortunately I have seen some of this and it's politics as usual. I understand you hold the stance that you are going to accept this for the greater good of the student body but it sounds to me that you disagree with this decision and think its a bad idea. If you are the highest position and rank in the organization could you not bring the issues with the decision to the forefront and question this decision. I'm not saying over rule, just question and ask them if they have thought about this.
To me it sounds a little self serving and a good way to be promoted far over current rank due to the "rule" of immediately being promoted.
Maybe I am a suspicious person but it just doesn't seem right.
No issue with giving the power to the student body to determine who is ruling the roost but to have a mandatory removal of someone that the voting body may be perfectly happy with is IMHO crazy.
No disrespect intended to your organization just my personal opinion. Coming from a previously dysfunctional organization, I have seen a little of this play out. A bad idea developed by many people is just a bad idea many times over. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Some very thoughtful questions, MatsuShinshii, and you deserve some very thoughtful answers from me; I'll try to do just that.
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| 1. If your bylaws state that the Kaicho is immediately promoted to Kudan without delay it comes to mind that every 2 years someone new is going to be promoted to Kudan. If this is the case you are going to have the possibility of having top heavy ranking within the organization |
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This just isn't going to happen.
Why? It's a very bad idea, and while I was against it at the very beginning when they first introduced this idea to me, even though, I was willing to entertain their idea, I've not changed my opposition. Having said that, I've decided that it's time to abolish/amend that specific By-Law because, imho, it's served its purpose, and its time has reached its given maturity, in which that type of change has been long in the making.
I've written out a rough draft, and will forward it to our Legal Team for its legal language, and such, as also with, its propriety conclusions and the like, as well. As with anything of this degree of importance, the amendment must be legal binding through and through, without any ambiguity whatsoever.
"For the immediate future, and from this time forward, the position of Kaicho will continue to be an elected position. However, the position of Kaicho will not, and shall not be awarded to the Dan Rank of Kudan, as it had been so ordered previously, with the air of immediacy, within the SKKA By-Laws. Therefore, the rank of Kudan, shall, now and for the time being, will not, and shall not be an attainable Dan Rank within the SKKA and/or same said By-Laws in any shape, way, and/or form. Albeit, the position of Kaicho can be held by only Senior Dan Ranks with a minimum of a Kyoshi Shogo, whereas, a Kyoshi Shogo is more preferred."
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| 2. what if all of the qualified hierarchy is voted out and you are now electing Godans or Yondans to be Kaicho. Pretty sweet deal to be promoted to Kudan but is this realistic? Does the rank fall off after you are voted out? |
That would've not been possible for either a Godan or a Yondan to be elected into the position of Kaicho because any Kaicho candidate would emerge from the Higher Hierarchy, and from there only. Only the Kancho, as well as the five members of the Regents were, and are, the only qualified persons.
And sadly, NO!! Had we allowed ourselves to me blind by a failed idea, those elected to the position of Kaicho, and thereby awarded a Kudan, would have that Kudan for life!! That left my stomach to churn and my brain to fizzle. As you've mentioned, we would've been way top heavy with an abundance of Kudan's. If we had done so, then our integrity would've been questioned by others, and more so, by our Student Body, and that, that alone is the reason that this idea will not see the light of another day. Not under my watch, and not under the Legal Teams watch; legality is, in this, tantamount!!
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| 3. If you are voted out every two years and not allowed to be voted back in for a term, what happens if the voting body realizes it's made a mistake? Do they vote yet another in his place? |
Yes, it would've been a monstrous mistake had we allowed it to reach its fruition. Had it gone through, and we, after the fact, had realized our error, we would've made whatever necessary steps to correct any and all outcomes as a result from it, and in an attempt to lessen any damage across the board. In short, it would've darn nearly killed any, if not all, of the Higher Hierarchy's integrity; once that was lost, any repairs made would've been only surface deep, and not within the hearts and the minds of the Student Body.
The original idea was to recycle those within the Higher Hierarchy, if need be, until a permanent Kaicho was elected upon, and named for the terms length.
In short, and with great respect, all of this is now mute because those friends, all of them, have passed away, this past July 2016 in a senseless tragedy.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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on the post.
