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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject: The ability and quality of a martial artist |
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Privately talked to other martial artists, that have definitely opposing ideas to me, this is fine and normal of course.
I tend to disagree with this one. Bruce Lee's martial art's wasn't real it was made just for the movies!
Also that forms and katas that look like dance or acrobatic in nature are useless flowery rubbish martial arts, that are intended only for show!
I believe there is a lot of skill and hard work devoted to doing these types of extreme martial art performances and it takes a high level of fitness to do these stunts. Talented martial artists that are labeled as ineffective because of their high level of kata skills is in my opinion unfair.
Do we need to throw eleven year old children in to the Octagon to see if they are competent martial artists?
How do you consider if a martial artist has a high level of ability or quality? |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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You make some good points that I agree with. XMA gets a bad rap, due to its athletic nature and use of things like backflips and somersaults to make things look flashy. You hear a lot that they aren't "traditional." True, but I'd be willing to bet that they do some "traditional" forms, and probably perform them with superb technique.
If someone wants to question the usefulness of the katas themselves, then that I can understand. As a short, overweight, older guy with bad knees, I don't see the need to fill a form with jumps and flips. Hurts too much. But a young kid that has the ability, I say have at it. Enjoy it while you're young.
Now, Bruce Lee's art being "made for movies," I don't buy into that. He really put a lot of thought into what he was doing. He was, however, an entertainer, so he did do things that he knew would be entertaining in regards to the Martial Arts in his movies, but that isn't the same thing.
In the end, people's opinions are their own, and just remember; they're allowed to be wrong. 
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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skullsplitter
Orange Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 171
Styles: shotokan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| My son has done 2 seminars with a couple of stars in the creative weapons and forms realm. Each time they preach that their students must have a traditional foundation before they can do the creative type stuff. They spoke of other connections to traditional forms too (here's a traditional reverse punch, but now angle your body and add some speed to make it look flashy, etc). And while they don't have bunkai, their creative forms are built with adversaries in mind. I found it interesting how much traditional base they spoke of. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting how some MA styles have embraced the Extreme MA such as TSD and TKD, while others such as Wing Chun once practiced by acrobats have dispensed with it altogether.
Extreme MA has opened up an interest in the movie industry for some talented individuals, starting of as stunt people and then rising to star status. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: The ability and quality of a martial artist |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| How do you consider if a martial artist has a high level of ability or quality? |
Proof is on the floor!!
Oftentimes, it takes only mere seconds for the floor to reveal both the ability and/or quality of any given MA. Therefore, I only have to consider the floor, at all times.
The floor reveals all things, whether it's good or bad! And in that, the floor is the most biased at revealing that which is of ability and/or quality. The floor has no friends, at the same time, it has no enemies; just honest evaluation.
The eye of the beholder!! That's a limited opinion!! For varied reasons within the scope of ascertaining anything of the MA doesn't require that the observer be of a high Dan rank as to it, whatever it is, ability and/or quality.
If, while observing a MA demonstration, one doesn't have to be concerned with being in concert in other MAist for that which is being observed as it being of ability and/or quality. Different view points are our given rights, and this needs to be respected.
Flashy moves within the MA are just that....MOVEMENTS, nonetheless! These said movements of a wide variety stimulate many things from an observer. Without intent, said observer has its emotions thrust into an emotional battle, whether it be good or bad. Entertainment aspects, as well as effectiveness aspects, are within the eye of the beholder.
Under what guise am I observing?? Entertainment or effectiveness?? I choose, therefore, it is of my choice, either way. Albeit, the MAist that's within me, will, from time to time, observes as that strict MA teacher; picking it to death at my own discretion.
There are those positive feelings felt whilst taking in that which is being observed:
Love
Appreciation
Happiness
Hope
Enthusiasm
Vitality
Confidence
Gratitude
Patient
Trust
Vulnerable
Optimistic
Appreciation
Joyful
Fascinated
And with anything positive, there is always the negative side. Such as:
Anger
Guilt
Depression
Pride
Jealousy
Self-pity
Anxiety
Resentment
Envy
Frustration
Shame
Denial
Offended
Negative
Regret
Resentful
Sad
Worried
Grief
Who's to say either of these emotional contents are wrong or right, at that very moment??
No, just give me the floor anytime!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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1) MMA or XMA and stunt(s) Cinema all belong to the entertainment industry that equals sponsorship money.
2) Military or law enforcement agencies, the people there need to be realistic about their martial arts because their lives are at stake.
3) Traditionalists and hobbyist martial artists which is the majority, can enjoy the participation without the commitment and health risks involved, on the contrary there are health benefits in this category.
I believe that there is always more room for change and diversity in the martial arts, this change will happen if we like it or not. MA has alot of chapters with a long past, will be interesting to see the next trend ... |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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That's a good point you make, Alan. There are lots of different points of view on Martial Arts, different philosophies and ideals, etc. Each person, I believe, ends up making the art they study their own just based on their own set of ideals. It may be splitting hairs, but after enough people do this, we see the differences we have today.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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RW
Green Belt
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:11 am Post subject: Re: The ability and quality of a martial artist |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Privately talked to other martial artists, that have definitely opposing ideas to me, this is fine and normal of course.
I tend to disagree with this one. Bruce Lee's martial art's wasn't real it was made just for the movies!
Also that forms and katas that look like dance or acrobatic in nature are useless flowery rubbish martial arts, that are intended only for show!
I believe there is a lot of skill and hard work devoted to doing these types of extreme martial art performances and it takes a high level of fitness to do these stunts. Talented martial artists that are labeled as ineffective because of their high level of kata skills is in my opinion unfair.
Do we need to throw eleven year old children in to the Octagon to see if they are competent martial artists?
How do you consider if a martial artist has a high level of ability or quality? |
I guess the bigger question here is, what is the purpose of (traditional) martial arts?
IMO the guy who can execute a 3rd degree black belt kata perfectly, punch a makiwara full force and is the perfect Yuki might not actually be amazing at actual fighting or full contact, continuous sparring.
If somebody wants to fight, and only fight, maybe taking boxing or Muay Thai and then some BJJ and/or wrestling in order to get ground fighting down would be far more effective.
Martial arts give you flexibility, endurance, stamina, discipline, and are more about personal growth and self improvement. The guy who can perform a 3rd degree black belt kata perfectly, has the reflexes to be a Yuki for full speed practice and has the sense of timing & distance that come with sparring has a degree of body control and coordination that a brawler or fighter does not. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| RW wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Privately talked to other martial artists, that have definitely opposing ideas to me, this is fine and normal of course.
I tend to disagree with this one. Bruce Lee's martial art's wasn't real it was made just for the movies!
Also that forms and katas that look like dance or acrobatic in nature are useless flowery rubbish martial arts, that are intended only for show!
I believe there is a lot of skill and hard work devoted to doing these types of extreme martial art performances and it takes a high level of fitness to do these stunts. Talented martial artists that are labeled as ineffective because of their high level of kata skills is in my opinion unfair.
Do we need to throw eleven year old children in to the Octagon to see if they are competent martial artists?
How do you consider if a martial artist has a high level of ability or quality? |
I guess the bigger question here is, what is the purpose of (traditional) martial arts?
IMO the guy who can execute a 3rd degree black belt kata perfectly, punch a makiwara full force and is the perfect Yuki might not actually be amazing at actual fighting or full contact, continuous sparring.
If somebody wants to fight, and only fight, maybe taking boxing or Muay Thai and then some BJJ and/or wrestling in order to get ground fighting down would be far more effective.
Martial arts give you flexibility, endurance, stamina, discipline, and are more about personal growth and self improvement. The guy who can perform a 3rd degree black belt kata perfectly, has the reflexes to be a Yuki for full speed practice and has the sense of timing & distance that come with sparring has a degree of body control and coordination that a brawler or fighter does not. |
Comparing a martial artist and a brawler, is easy pickings.
That reminds me of a story.
The student asks his Sifu "What is the difference between what we do in Kung Fu and a Brawler?"
His Sifu replied "We basically do what the Brawler does, with one major difference, we do it with style" |
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on the post.
