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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
Why a crescent kick? I believe that that kick telegraphs itself way to much. I've jammed that kick more often than not. However, I suppose one could ask...Why not a crescent kick?! I, personally love the kick, having learned it in my short TKD days. However, I've not seen that kick having a high success ratio.
Why go fancy when basics work...still?! I know, why not go fancy?! In short, it's a preference, as is anything else in the MA.
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Why have a spanner when you have a hammer? Different tools, for different jobs and different times. |
True, true; it's an individual preference. Btw, what's a spanner??
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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A spanner is a tool used to tighten up a bolt on a car or bicycle wheel.
Using the right tool for the job is logical for car maintenance.
Martial arts is not based on car maintenance logic, certainty not Chinese martial arts, that are based on animal fighting virtues.
Using a crescent kick on an opponent that is bent over would be appropriate; could cause a KO without much difficulty. |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
Why a crescent kick? I believe that that kick telegraphs itself way to much. I've jammed that kick more often than not. However, I suppose one could ask...Why not a crescent kick?! I, personally love the kick, having learned it in my short TKD days. However, I've not seen that kick having a high success ratio.
Why go fancy when basics work...still?! I know, why not go fancy?! In short, it's a preference, as is anything else in the MA.
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Why have a spanner when you have a hammer? Different tools, for different jobs and different times. |
True, true; it's an individual preference. Btw, what's a spanner??
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Sorry. I think you call them wrenches?
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
A spanner is a tool used to tighten up a bolt on a car or bicycle wheel.
Using the right tool for the job is logical for car maintenance.
Martial arts is not based on car maintenance logic, certainty not Chinese martial arts, that are based on animal fighting virtues.
Using a crescent kick on an opponent that is bent over would be appropriate; could cause a KO without much difficulty. |
Are you saying martial artists is not logical? 
There isn't one option for one scenario, but there are multiple logical responses to each situation.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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I'm saying martial arts is not based on car maintenance logic, unless the exception pops up and there is a martial artists that is also car maintenance inclined.
Let's see it the other way around, would you want a mechanic using martial art logic to maintain your car?
Yes there are many martial artists that do practice their style in a garage.
Human body mechanics is more applicable to martial arts than car mechanics. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: The crescent kick |
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| Toptomcat wrote: |
What's up with the crescent kick? In karate and karate-descended systems worldwide it's treated as a foundational kick- often given equal or nearly equal class time with the front, side, and roundhouse kicks. It shows up often in our kata, arguably more than any other kick. It is indisputably present in the Southern Chinese systems that karate descended from, and seems to show up no matter what lineage or substyle you're looking at, so it can't be dismissed as a corruption or later addition.
Yet I can't seem to find a use for it. It is rare to the point of nonexistance in high-level competition of stop-and-start point sparring, continuous point sparring, knockdown sparring, American kickboxing, Thai kickboxing, and mixed martial arts, and I've never seen a self-defense application for it that seemed plausible.
Some Taekwondo instructors advocate throwing it when at clinch range- but I've never seen it actually applied successfully in a clinch where any degree of contact or grappling was permitted. The opening it presents for a knee in the unmentionables or single-leg takedown would seem to far outweigh the potential benefit.
Those who put together our syllabus and our kata seem to have thought the crescent kick was important, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. Help me out! |
What Kata are you specifically referring to?
The crescent kick is utilized as a removal tool rather than a kick in some Kata. If a stronger opponent grabs your strike, this kick is used to remove their hand/arm and to also damage said arm. It can also be used to pull the opponent down and off balance as the arm is removed thus giving you a split seconds advantage.
Can you clarify what Kata? |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Try to keep in mind that kicks in traditional Karate before sport were 90% of the time delivered low, targeting the shin, inside and outside thigh, groin region, abdomen and diaphragm and floating rib area's.
The crescent kick is typically utilized as an upper region kick. The old Okinawan Karateka did not utilize high kicks unless the opponent was at a disadvantage and could not sweep the standing leg, grab the kicking leg and then sweep the standing leg, duck/move in to counter their kick or take them off balance.
Often times if the Kata is taken at face value without taking into context the original fighting style and what the concepts were, the techniques do not make sense and sometime hold little value unless the underlying applications are known. |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| MAfreak wrote: |
crescent kick is for when one isn't flexible enough for round kicks. 
an example could be the variations of the "tornado kick":
in wushu its done for show so it should be very high and they do it with a crescent kick.
in taekwondo its done to hit their opponents under their tournament rules and it would be enough at waist height but since its full contact, should hit hard,
and they do it as a round kick, so with more hip movement.
sure the common practitioners of both arts could do the round kick very high, but i feel it that way with my limited flexibility so i hope it could give you an idea of possibilities for the crescent kick.
whatever when to use which kick might also depend on the distance so directly in front of you, maybe grabbing hold on you, crescent kick could do well (but knee or shin strikes would be better here, when just comparing leg techniques). |
Our tornado kick involves a front crescent, and a spinning hop with a jumping front crescent to finish.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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mushybees
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 199
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
Try to keep in mind that kicks in traditional Karate before sport were 90% of the time delivered low, targeting the shin, inside and outside thigh, groin region, abdomen and diaphragm and floating rib area's.
The crescent kick is typically utilized as an upper region kick. The old Okinawan Karateka did not utilize high kicks unless the opponent was at a disadvantage and could not sweep the standing leg, grab the kicking leg and then sweep the standing leg, duck/move in to counter their kick or take them off balance.
Often times if the Kata is taken at face value without taking into context the original fighting style and what the concepts were, the techniques do not make sense and sometime hold little value unless the underlying applications are known. |
Agreed. A crescent kick to the inside thigh or inside knee is no joke. |
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on the post.
