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sansoouser
Purple Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 521
Location: Hot headed, Irish Man
Styles: san soo, judo,
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 Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:44 am Post subject: The Death Touch |
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Do any of you believe in the death touch? Not necassarily one that kills you with just a quick tap but maybe drop you to your knees or knock you down ( not in the groin  ).
I have had it done to me by my San Soo instructor and it is a wierd feeling but I feel down when he just ran his hand down by back pretty soft too. Theres another one where if you hit them there they will feel sick or ill in a few hours.
So do you?
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The amateur shoots his hands out ferociously, but lacks any true power. A master is not so flamboyant, but his touch is as heavy as a mountain. |
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granmasterchen
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 1027
Location: japan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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The art of dim mak and vital points consist of these areas where touches with various amounts of pressure can cause injury to death. As for touches that cause latent death and sickness, I have only read about these and have never experienced them myself. If it is true i would like to study that also, I am only familiar with killing strikes.
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That which does not destroy me will only make me stronger |
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sansoouser
Purple Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 521
Location: Hot headed, Irish Man
Styles: san soo, judo,
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, i've learned most of the dim mak strikes and yes some are just ment to knock the opponent out, my sifu did this to a thug when we were walking to a store when we got jumped. The guy pulled out a knife when my sifu grabbed his wristand applied a wrist lock then struck his skull and that knocked him out.
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The amateur shoots his hands out ferociously, but lacks any true power. A master is not so flamboyant, but his touch is as heavy as a mountain. |
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Sight for Sore Eyes
White Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 18
Styles: TKD, Kyusho Jitsu, Okinawan Karate
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| I take Kyusho Jitsu so yes I do believe in these sort of strikes and touches. Very interesting and dangerous stuff. |
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Thuggish
Blue Belt
Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 252
Styles: kung fu, muay thai, wrestling,
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 10:59 am Post subject: |
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there are hundreds of pressure points in the body, and most of them, when propoerly stimulted, can make someone drop to their knees- cause that * hurts. if there was a touch that actually killed someone though, they were palming a tiny poison needle or something.
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a broken arm throws no punches |
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JerryLove
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 1274
Location: Tampa, FL, US
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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There are quite a few hits that kill... chest-compressions can throw a heart into arythmis, jogging the brain can do it, as can injuring the brain stem or spinal cord.
We just had a lady in a tough-man cmopetition here in florida die i nthe ring a week or so ago.
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Kung Fu Hamster
Orange Belt
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 148
Location: Sunny ol' England
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Check this out,
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The proceeding pages will deal with 32 of the pressure points of the body. Of course, there are quite a few more, but these are the basics. All of the points are classified into 2 catagories :
Numerical
I - brain/skull
II - sense organs
III- life support, cardiorespiratory, major organs & tracts
IV - muscular functions & nerves
V - mechanical functions, skeletal, cartilage's & joints
Alphabetical
A-immobility from pain
B-immobility from structural or organic damage
C-Unconsciousness from nerve or organic damage
D-death from physiological damage
The ventral transverse plane consists of the face, the front, top, & sides of the head, the neck, & the upper torso, including the collarbone. There are 15 pressure points in this area as follows:
1. Coronal Suture I-C
2. Trigeminal Nerve & Frontal Bone I-D
3. Temple & Fossa Temporalis I-D
4. Eyes II-B
5. Ears II-B
6. Mastoid II-A
7. Septal Cartilage II-A or II-D
8. Anterior Nasal Spine I-A
9. Temporomandibular Joint V-A
10. Tip Of Mandible I-C
11. Sternocleidomastoid Region III-D
12. Anterior Neck Region III-D
13. Brachial Plexus & Trapezius Muscle IV-C
14. Suprasternal Notch III-D
15. Clavicle V-B
16. Heart III-D
17. Kidneys III-B
18. Shoulder Socket V-B
19. Elbow V-B
20. Carpals, Metacarpals and Phalanges V-B
21. Patella V-B
22. Tarsals and Metatarsals V-B
23. Thoracic Cage V-D
24. Floating Ribs V-B/D
25. Vertebral Column V-B
26. Diaphragm III-C/D
27. Testes III-A/C
28. Coccyx III-A
29. Armpit IV-A
30. Posterior Cutaneous IV-A
31. Liver III-D
32. Spleen III-D
1: This region lays on top of the head, more towards the forehead. It is also known as the soft spot on babies. It is the space between the skull bones that is covered with a membrane that close up usually by 18 months, but the coronal structure is still weaker than the rest of the skull. Directly beneath this is the sensory portion of the brain & under that the optic cavity. A downward strike of about 45 degrees depending on the force could cause concussion, temporary blindness, unconsciousness, brain haemorrhage, even death (very powerful blow).
2: This region is located just below the centermost point of the forehead The nerve is on the outside of the skull thus when the bone is struck it will trap the nerve. This could result in jarring the cerebral hemispheres, concussion, unconsciousness, impaired vision, & paralysis. If and only if maximum impact is applied, death could result from brain haemorrhage.
3: I'm sure we all know where the temple is but for those of you that don't know it is located on a horizontal plane across from the top of the ear. It is the recessed part on each side of the head. It is actually the bone tip of the sphenoid. The trigeminal nerve runs through the temple. This nerve controls several facial functions. Also passing through is the middle meningeal artery which is the largest branch supplying dura matter. A direct hit could break the tip off the sphenoid causing it to enter the brain. The meningeal could burst. Contact to the trigeminal could result in loss of control of facial functions. Compression of the brain, hemorrhage, concussion, shock, & death are likely results of striking the temple with a horizontal blow directed towards the opposite temple.
4: The eyes are located...uh I think you know. The eyes are very sensitive even to the slightest touch. They are held in by fascia bulbi (a soft membrane) and eye muscles. This makes them easy to pop out. They are also very soft, and if a blow reached the vitreous body (center of eye) the eyeball would collapse. Other than causing temporary or permanent loss of sight a deep thrust could puncture the brain causing death.
5: These are located on each side of the head. Air is easily trapped in the external acoustic meatus (the tunnel from the outer ear to the inner ear) and forced into the eardrum causing it to bust. This in turn ruptures the hammer or malleus within the middle ear. Damages would cause severe pain, loss of hearing, bleeding from the mouth and ear, and bleeding into the throat via the internal auditory tube. Also, the inner ear is the center of equilibrium (balance) for the cerebellum. a forceful strike could leave the victim sprawled on the ground with no balance! The blow should be delivered horizontally driving into the ear.
6: The mastoid is located directly behind the earlobe. It is the recessed area where the skull meets the neck. It is filled with air pockets which are used to communicate with the middle ear. A thrust should not be used; rather apply pressure with a nuckle or thumbnail in an upward direction. Prolonged pressure could cause damage to the auditory system.
7: Known more commonly as the nose the septal cartilage is the hard substance that makes up the nose. Two strikes are used here for different measures
II-A : a horizontal strike causing breakage of the septal cartilage and nasal bone which ruptures the angular vein producing a lot of blood along with great pain, however, not enough to stop some attackers II-D : an upward 45 degree strike forcing the septal cartilage through the internal nasal cavity and crista galli (a small bone formation between the nasal cavity & the brain) into the brain. Death would be instantaneous because of compression of the brain.
8: This is located beneath the nose and above the lips. It is the area between the 2 lines running from the nose to upper lip. Many of the facial nerves run through this area. A direct hit would cause the sensory fibers to relay the shock to the pons, causing dizziness. A hit would also cause damage to the maxilla bone which holds the gums & teeth. This could cause extensive bleeding posibly scaring the victim about the blood loss. A straight blow in needed to achieve this aiming towards the back of the head.
9: This is the joint that holds the jaw bone in place. It connects with the skull in front of the ear. The joint is really made up of 2 separate joints, thus dislocation can be unilateral or bilateral. With a 45 degree downward strike (preferably with the mouth open) will dislocate the mandible (jaw bone). An easier way to break the bone is to strike the joint itself or anywhere on the jaw bone really while the head is turned to one side or the other. This reduces the absorbtion of the blow by the neck. This method requires the least amount of force.
10: The madible is the jaw bone and of course the tip is located on the very end of the chin. Boxers use this point for a quick K.O. Hitting this area sends a shock snesor to the cerebellum causing unconsciousness. Hit this point with an upward blow.
11: This is the area at the frontal sides of the neck. The sternocleidomastoid muscles run from behind the ear down to the clavicle bones. Beneath these muscles lie the jugular vein and cartoid artery which supply blood to the heart & brain. This are is very sensitive. Try poking yourself there. A medium strike results in dizziness. A more forceful blow could blister, swell, collapse or or burst 1 or both of the blood lines. This could easily cause death because of lack of oxygen to the heart or brain. A strike should be done on an upsloping plane at 45 degrees on either side of the chin in the neck area.
12: Referred to as the windpipe or throat; is located in the center portion of the neck. This is a tubular passage running from the mouth to the stomach & lungs. When a straight on blow is delivered the thyroid cartilage (Adam's apple(the lump in your throat)) and the hyaline cartilage (hold the windpipe in a cylinder shape) are pushed through the larynx and/or trachea resulting in blood drowning or partial or complete obstruction of the vital air passages. The cartilages act as cutting devices.
13: The muscle is the one that runs from the base of the neck to the shoulder. It raises up on most people. The brachial plexus is a nerve center which supplies info about the shoulder & arm down to the wrist. It runs through the trapezius. Striking the trapezius (from either front or back) with a downward 45 degree motion could paralyze the arm & shoulder temporarily. With a maximun blow unconsciousness & paralysis could be attained.
14: This lies between the collarbones; it connects them. A blow here could dislodge the collarbones from the sternum, collapsing the shoulders. But there are better targets behind the sternum. Such as the aorta, the superior vena cava (major blood lines to the brain), and the trachea all these pass directly behind the sternum. A forceful blow would follow these reactions : dislodge both clavicles from the sternum, the sternum would split, the 2 clavicles & sternum would be forced against or puncture the aorta and vena cava, the cartilages & bones would then be forced against or puncture the trachea. The strike should be delivered at a downward 45 degree angle. The suprasternal notch is a MAJOR death target.
15: This is the bone on each side of the body that runs from the shoulder to the center of the chest. It supports the shoulder so breaking a clavicle (collarbone) would result in the collapse of the shoulder. It is possible for the broken bone to puncture a lung or possibly the heart or one of the things mentioned in #14. A simple break would immobilize the victim due to structural damage & pain. An inward & down motion should be used when attacking also at 45 degrees.
16. This is the cardiac muscle that pumps the blood throughtout the body. It is hidden behind the sternam, (the breast plate in the middle of the chest). A forceful strike would cause the heart to skip beats and collapse, ceasing the movement of oxygen around the body resulting in death.
17. The kidneys are located in the soft area of the back, at the bottom of the rib cage. The front of the kidneys is protected by the floating ribs, however, the back of the kidneys are exposed and vunerable. There is one on each side of the vertebral column. A firm strike to this area generates alot of pain and will cause structural damage. Internal bleeding may result causing death.
18. This is the point at which the top of the humurus and the scaptula meet in a ball and socket joint. To disslocate the shoulder joint, one must place a foot or knee under the arm and sharply pull and twist the arm. This will create alot of pain.
19. The elbow, which is a hinge joint, where the base of the humurus and the forearm meet. This joint works only one way. Therefore, by holding the back of this joint and applying pressure by pulling the forearm in the opposite direction to which the subject is facing it can be broken quite readily. This will cause pain and immobility due to structural damage.
20. The carpals, metacarpals and phalanges are the bones which make up the hand and fingers. They are attatched by means of a hinge joint and can be easiely broken in much the same way as the elbow. This technique is effective against holds and stranglers where the fingers can readily be bent backwards. this will cause structural damage and generate pain.
21. The Petalla, often known as the knee cap, is a small round piece of bone which floats freely in the hinge joint of the femur and the tibia. By using a downward strike the petella can easiely become disslodged causeing pain and immobility.
22. The tarsals and metatarsals are the bones which make up the foot. They, like the carpals and metacarpals, work on the basis of hinge joints. However, it is extremly difficult to get the chance to, let alone bend these back. A prefered method is to execute an extremely powerful downward strike such as a stamp onto the bones causing them to break. the subject will then fall to the floor as there is no base on which the body weight can be placed.
23. The thoracic cage, often known as the rib cage, is the protective box in which holds the vital organs. The rib cage consists of a number of long bones that start at the spinal column and proceed around the body connecting at the sternam in the centre of the chest. A forceful strike or stamp to the frontal area can cause the thoracic cage to collapse resulting in the feeling of a tight chest, extreme pain and immobility. In some cases the broken bones may piece the heart or lungs resulting in death.
24. The floating ribs also begin at the spinal column and extend around the body. However, they do not join at the front. They are located below the thoracic cage and can be much more readily brocken than those in the thoracic cage. In some instances the brackage of these bones may pierce the liver or spleen resulting in the subject rapidly bleeding to death.
25. The vertabral coloumn or spinal column, runs down the centre of the back from the base of the skull to the anus. It is made up of a large number of small disc shaped bones connected together. The spinal column holds the spinal cord within it, this is a thick collection of nerves that controls the middle and lower body. A strong strike to this column would break the vertabrae and in some cases snap the spinal cord resulting in full or partial paralysis.
26. The diaphragm is a thick membrane located at the base of the sternam that strecthes from the front to the back and from left to right. THe diaphragm is the membrane that, by contracting and relaxing, changes the volume in the lungs causing intake and expiration of oxygen. A rising strike into this area would temporarily paralyse this membrane and knock out all of the air out of the lungs. Thus, damage to this organ would result in a inability to breath resulting in unconsciousness and maybe death.
27. The testes are located between the legs at the base of the body on a male. Even a slight strike to this area would cause extreme pain , immobility and maybe unconsciousness.
28. The coccyx is a small collection of bones located at the base of the spinal column at the anal opening. A forceful strike to this area would cause extreme pain and immobility.
29. The armpit is a concave area of tissue that is located under the arm where the upper arm and main body join. Within the armpit is a large gathering of nerves. Although this area is not often accessable, a strike to the armpit would cause intense pain and immobility.
30. The posterior cutaneous is a large collection of nerve cells found at the back of the upper leg. A pinching technique to this area would cause sharp pain and a sudden relfex action to move.
31. The liver is located on the right side of the body extending across to a point on the left. The top of the liver is protected by the ribs on both sides. However the bootom of the liver, found on the right side is unprotected. The liver is saturated with blood and any damage to this organ would result in a rapid loss of blood due to internal bleeding. Resulting in death.
32. The spleen is similar to the liver in that it too is saturated with blood. However, the spleen is a smaller organ and is found on the left side. It is completely protected by the ribs. Damage to this organ would also produce rapid blood loss due to internal bleeding. Resulting in death.
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I found it on a site:http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/irresponsible_activities/161683.html
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Everybodies Going Kung Fu Fighting! Yah Hoocha! LMAO |
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YoungGrasshopper
Yellow Belt
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Don't get too hyped up on that stuff. I've read the books, such as "The Encyclopedia of Dim-Mak", which costed me a fortune. It is incredibly...LAME. These 2 guys are just trying to make money or something, and they try to make it sound interesting putting like "Hitting this point will corrupt ST9(stomache point 9)" and it's like the freakin rib. I mean all it does is point out the traditional "weak" spots of the human body (ribs, temple, armpit, throat, that one lil spot above the midde of the stomache and below the middle of the chest that i donno the name of...that weak part on the leg muay thai ppl always kick at...ERG). And you should already know these spots due to your current martial art training anyway. Besides, in a tournament, fight, whatever, those "Dim-maK" spots aren't going to be exposed to you. You won't observe your opponent thinking "OK...I'm ganna hit bladderpoint15 which is somewhere below the..." you know? I think that's why Dim-Mak is like least considered and not well-known cause it's delayness. Just stick to hitting the traditional modern spots today's fighters use. |
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Martial Law
Yellow Belt
Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 42
Styles: american freestyle
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:18 am Post subject: |
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i have a book called " Shaolin Long Fist Kung Fu " by Yang Jwing-Ming and Jeffery A. Bolt. It has alot of cool pressure points in it. There is another book called "Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na" ,i think that is what it is called, has some good stuff too.
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Shorin Ryuu
Black Belt
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1862
Location: Pearl City, HI
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kobudo
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| YoungGrasshopper wrote: |
| Don't get too hyped up on that stuff. |
As someone mentioned, they studied Kyushojitsu, and pressure point theory is the basis for all of this. If you study traditional Okinawan karate, all of their advanced techniques are based on pressure point manipulation. I'm sure there are many chinese styles that are as well, since a lot of this came from China, I just don't know them as well.
Some people have done more valid research on this topic than others. I admit, there are many crackpot books out there. George Dillman has done extensive research on this, combining medical studies and martial arts studies and has written several good books for this. It has been scientifically proven that hitting pressure points in one part of the body makes others much more effective and vulnerable. When you fight, you may not necessarily think about hitting gall bladder 20 on the base of the neck, or maybe you will. That is why it takes a long time to master techniques. Reducing it to punching and kicking real fast turns it into a strength contest. Implementing things like pressure points allows weaker opponents to take down stronger ones. All in all, you won't be strong forever. Training to be more efficient in addition to strength is what will make martial arts a lifetime skill.
In terms of just pointing out traditional weak spots in the body, it helps to understand the true theory behind everything. Sure, a wrist lock is a wrist lock, but employing pressure points in the proper way makes the technique so much more effective. Many techniques are taught without pressure point manipulation, and it is not until later that the more advanced student learns what is really behind it. Plus, different pressure points require different methods of striking at different angles.
Now, as complicated as this is, why do you think there is so much stressing on accuracy of kata and form in traditional arts? Because they concealed many pressure point techniques for different situations. Kata is just an easier way to remember them rather than just looking at a book.
Delayed death touches are really more the result of a pressure point strike or vital point damage that causes a blood clot or some disorder in the body that affects the opponent's health, either in a few days or a few years. Back when medical technology was not up to the modern level, these strikes seemed mysterious indeed. Nowadays, they can be treated. The danger of these techniques are perhaps one reason why there was so much secrecy behind the arts. You don't want to give any joe schmoe off the street a machine gun. Likewise, you didn't want to let just anybody know these techniques.
Blah, blah, blah...i could go on for much longer, but you get the point.
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on the post.
