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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16425
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
MatsuShinshii wrote:
Spartacus Maximus wrote:
The "students having a hissy fit" is precisely what inspired this topic. The whole concept of the belt system is synonymous with martial arts that it has become very difficult to imagine not having it. People in the martial arts and the public expect belts.

There is no doubt that doing away with belts would be like heresy to many and it would certainly mean less people starting. Dojos with few belts are few and far between even in Okinawa and Japan. Most heads of styles and governing bodies based there have several kyu and colours.

When one is used to the rainbow of belts, it can be somewhat of a shock or surprise to make the change. Having fewer grades and belts takes the focus away from that and back to skill development and improvement. Belt or no belt, dogi or e everyday clothes, either one can or cannot.


Understood and I agree that in some respects it is too late to start over or make a huge change without loosing some or most of our students.

I was certainly not suggesting that I would go through with this but I do in fact think that going back to the two belt system would improve the competency of our students and produce better martial artists.

To me belts are the goal for most students due to ego. Again when I was coming up the goal was to perfect and absorb everything that was learned. Rather than concentrating just on the level you are in, you concentrated on all of what had been and was being taught.

I just feel that it made better all around students and IMHO I feel that students actually progressed with more skill and knowledge than they do today. This I believe is why instructors have to harp on students to return to the basics. It is human nature in some to be lazy, if you will, any only concentrate on what they are being taught rather than to go back and practice what had been taught. Some feel this is a waste of time or they feel that they should not need to practice something that a test told them they had some degree of competency in. I see it every day even though I only use four belts. Once the next level is achieved the previous level is almost all but forgotten.

"How fast can I climb to the top" or "Now I want to have that" is the normal mentality today. If belts were not in the picture the student would strive to perfect the techniques and applications taught rather than racing to the next belt so they can look cool or show off to their friends.

Again just my 2 cents on the subject.

To the bold type above...

That, right there, that's the billion dollar nail being hit by the trillion dollar hammer; right on point!!



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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sensei8 wrote:
MatsuShinshii wrote:
Spartacus Maximus wrote:
The "students having a hissy fit" is precisely what inspired this topic. The whole concept of the belt system is synonymous with martial arts that it has become very difficult to imagine not having it. People in the martial arts and the public expect belts.

There is no doubt that doing away with belts would be like heresy to many and it would certainly mean less people starting. Dojos with few belts are few and far between even in Okinawa and Japan. Most heads of styles and governing bodies based there have several kyu and colours.

When one is used to the rainbow of belts, it can be somewhat of a shock or surprise to make the change. Having fewer grades and belts takes the focus away from that and back to skill development and improvement. Belt or no belt, dogi or e everyday clothes, either one can or cannot.


Understood and I agree that in some respects it is too late to start over or make a huge change without loosing some or most of our students.

I was certainly not suggesting that I would go through with this but I do in fact think that going back to the two belt system would improve the competency of our students and produce better martial artists.

To me belts are the goal for most students due to ego. Again when I was coming up the goal was to perfect and absorb everything that was learned. Rather than concentrating just on the level you are in, you concentrated on all of what had been and was being taught.

I just feel that it made better all around students and IMHO I feel that students actually progressed with more skill and knowledge than they do today. This I believe is why instructors have to harp on students to return to the basics. It is human nature in some to be lazy, if you will, any only concentrate on what they are being taught rather than to go back and practice what had been taught. Some feel this is a waste of time or they feel that they should not need to practice something that a test told them they had some degree of competency in. I see it every day even though I only use four belts. Once the next level is achieved the previous level is almost all but forgotten.

"How fast can I climb to the top" or "Now I want to have that" is the normal mentality today. If belts were not in the picture the student would strive to perfect the techniques and applications taught rather than racing to the next belt so they can look cool or show off to their friends.

Again just my 2 cents on the subject.

To the bold type above...

That, right there, that's the billion dollar nail being hit by the trillion dollar hammer; right on point!!




I appreciate your comment. Most would not agree these days.

I guess I'm a little old fashioned but I still believe as my Shinshii taught me that the belt does not make the man but rather the man makes the belt. If one is not ready, one does not get to wear the belt.

Nothing worse than a paper tiger wearing a belt that they do not deserve or measure up to. Unfortunately this is exactly what happens with the rainbow system. Requirements are dropped and over time the slippery slope of a black belt becoming JUST ANOTHER belt comes into play.

Anyway I appreciate that your kind words.
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