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patusai
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 1639
Location: Chicago, Illiniois
Styles: So Ryu, Shorin Ryu, Isshin Ryu
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 Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: |
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although I agree with Brandon Fisher and MizuRyu I also believe that there are many paths that can be taken to achieve your goal. although I believe that some paths are better than others it is for each of us to select our own path. Sometimes, half way down the new path we find that we must return. Sometimes, for whatever reason, we don't.
My thoughts are, that after hundreds of years of training being taught to each new student with kata it is not something that should be changed so easily. Some people, and I am not suggesting that you are one, choose not to follow the tradition because they see or cannot understand the purpose of it or for it. Not seeing sometimes may mean deeper study or finding a deeper understanding. In other words, because I find the reason does not mean that it does not exit.
With that said, it's fine to follow your own path. It's your choice. Good luck in reaching your goal  |
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Shotokan-kez
Black Belt
Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 1957
Location: Manchester uk
Styles: shotokan karate
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Kata is sooooo important as far as im concerned. Ok maybe it isnt used much in fighting, but when we do the bunkai i find it very effective. Kata is my most favourite thing in karate..i love it. Kata has helped me so much in so many different ways, mind, awareness and strength ect.
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Walk away and your always a winner. www.shikata-shotokan.co.uk |
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P.A.L
Black Belt
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1182
Location: Texas
Styles: Shorin-ryu (Kobayashi)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| IMHO 2-3 katas are enough for a compelet self defense system, but you need to spend the same amount of time or even more in mastery of techniques and combinations. |
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Abraham_lincoln
Yellow Belt
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 34
Location: PA
Styles: Okinawan shorin ryu karate (shodan)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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After 3 pages, someone is bound to have posted something like this somewhere, but I'll say it anyway.
Kata contain so many moves and stance combinations that are somewhat obscure, and true, some of them might be useless, at least in most practical applications. Kata, as I see it, is there to teach these obscure move and stance combinations. If there were no kata to learn, martial arts would just be a plateau, limited by conventional moves and maneuvers. Kata are there so that you commit these moves to memory, and eventually, muscle memory. You then don't even have to think about the kata, as you do it. Likewise, in a practical scenario, if you can use kata, your movements and attacks would be less predictable, and for the most part, more powerful. I see a lot of other students in the dojo talking to the sensei about kata. Telling them how they see a certain move, and asks what the sensei's view of the move can be. If you just practice kata, and don't study it, only then does it become useless. |
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DancingSteve
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 72
Styles: Shotokan (Shodan)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: I'll say something no one else has said. |
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I have a very hard time believing someone who trained in karate and is a 4th dan can so blatantly disregard the value of kata.
But thats just my 2 coppers.
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Brandon Fisher
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 859
Location: Cleveland, Ohio USA
Styles: Seijitsu Shin Do
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Tokkan wrote: |
| Brandon Fisher wrote: |
| I think that you need to study it deeper. You can't look at just the literal movement shown in the kata. |
Why not?
Each movement is supposed to be used for literal fighting unless you consider kata just dancing? |
You are only looking at the literal movement not the oyo, or kakushi in it. You are making the same mistake that many many karate-ka make and its from a lack of in depth education on kata.
_________________
Brandon Fisher
Seijitsu Shin Do |
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Black_Crane
White Belt
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Albury, NSW, Australia
Styles: Sansho-Kan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Tokkan wrote: |
| Brandon Fisher wrote: |
| I think that you need to study it deeper. You can't look at just the literal movement shown in the kata. |
Why not?
Each movement is supposed to be used for literal fighting unless you consider kata just dancing? |
I may not know as much as you Tokkan, and i may never know as much as u, but for those who live in Australia, read the june 2006 issue of Blitz martial arts magazine. An article in it about Kata says that when the old Kata's were made they were purposely designed with faults built into them. So take a closer look at your kata's and think about what would happen in a fight if you changed "x" technique in such a way. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13977
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:20 am Post subject: |
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I always enjoyed doing forms. But, I sometimes wondered why some moves were the way they were. Now I know that I need to study it deeper to really see what they mean.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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Zorbasan
Green Belt
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 423
Location: Adelaide
Styles: Shotokan and ICHF Hapkido plus any other style i can get into a seminar on
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
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good to see people saying they study kata, not just practise it.
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Now you use head for something other than target. |
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Shui Tora
Green Belt
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 388
Location: UK
Styles: Shotokan (Shodan-ho, 3rd Kyu Adult Syll.), Yamabushi Kenjutsu Ryu, Kyudo, Kyusho
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Tokkan wrote: |
n recent years I have come to the conclusion that practising Kata is ineffective.
I know this will upset traditionalists but I had to ask myself some questions:
When was the last time you saw a huge amount of Kata movements used in kumite and contest?
Conclusion? Hardly ever if at all.
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But you are talking about using them in sports contests and in kumite... Yes, you don't use them at all in kumite but kata were designed for bunkai / self defence... Not compeitions.
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To know the road ahead; ask those coming back... ~ Chinese Proverb
" The ultimate aim of Karate lies not in victory or defeat, but in the perfection of the character of its participants. " ~ Master Funakoshi |
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on the post.
