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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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It's actually quite interesting, DWx. I was surprised to find this included on p. 3 of the article:
Professor Mike Donovan, an ex-middleweight champion, in his 1893 book The Science of Boxing, advocated using using a three-knuckle landing, vertical punch. Jack Dempsey was an advocate of the three-knuckle, vertical punch, as it worked well with his "power line" theory (similar to the Wing-chun centerline theory).
I'm not familiar with Donovan, but I did revisit Dempsey's Championship Fighting. I was already aware that he favored striking with the last three knuckles of the fist, the ring finger's knuckle as the center from which a line is drawn down the forearm. However, I noticed (because I was looking for it) how many illustrations there are of vertical strikes--including Dempsey's "line." However, there are a number of illustrations of horizontal punches, making me wonder if it's what you're aiming at (and perhaps distance) that may dictate the better punch.
There is a reference to a simple experiment on p. 6 of the article:
- Stand with your arms hanging naturedly at the sides.
- Keeping your hands and wrist motionless and using only your shoulder muscles, raise your arms in front of your body to shoulder height.
- Now close the hands into fists.
The result the author points out is horizontal, but I've found that if I start with my hands at my sides, raise them one at a time instead of together, they're at 45 degrees. I can also start with them at my sides again, then reach out, and find they're at 45 degrees. When fighting, I believe the one arm at a time example holds truer than both arms at the same time.
I think the author favors the horizontal punch, which is not a problem as I see it, but I was looking for the 45 degree punch to be included; I didn't find it. Perhaps the author didn't want to include anything controversial.
You can likely write a book on this, but I was very happy with the article. Thanks DWx!
_________________ ~ Joe
Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu |
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer the normal seiken (palm down), but a tate tsuki (vertical fist) is good for getting through someone's guard who keeps it tight. Other than that though, seikens for me. |
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Kuma wrote: |
[A] tate tsuki (vertical fist) is good for getting through someone's guard who keeps it tight.
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The vertical fist and the vertical spear hand are similar in doing this. I remember accidentally (I was being too aggressive) getting a spear hand through a sparring partner's guard position. We weren't supposed to use finger techniques, and for good reason; I accidentally touched his eye. He was disoriented for a couple of minutes, but fortunately turned out to be okay.
It's a good point, though, about the vertical fist having a better chance at getting through, Kuma. _________________ ~ Joe
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GhostFighter
Orange Belt
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 107
Styles: Krav Maga + Thaiboxing + Boxing
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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:21 am Post subject: |
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But wont knuckels break faster with the vertical fist since u tend to hit it with the bottom 3 knuckels where the horizontal hits with the big 2 ones? _________________ Everyday is a fight |
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:30 am Post subject: |
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joesteph wrote: |
Kuma wrote: |
[A] tate tsuki (vertical fist) is good for getting through someone's guard who keeps it tight.
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The vertical fist and the vertical spear hand are similar in doing this. I remember accidentally (I was being too aggressive) getting a spear hand through a sparring partner's guard position. We weren't supposed to use finger techniques, and for good reason; I accidentally touched his eye. He was disoriented for a couple of minutes, but fortunately turned out to be okay.
It's a good point, though, about the vertical fist having a better chance at getting through, Kuma. |
Ouch! Glad to hear he's okay. I know if I was a new student coming to a dojo, I'd be a bit intimidated if some of the students were wearing eye patches |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: |
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GhostFighter wrote: |
But wont knuckels break faster with the vertical fist since u tend to hit it with the bottom 3 knuckels where the horizontal hits with the big 2 ones? |
Not necessarily. If you align your striking properly, then you should be just fine. I have not had any breaks yet. _________________ www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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