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BKJ1216
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 1145
Location: Yakima, Washington
Styles: Shudokan Karate
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 Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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How come everyone bad mouths karate? WHat's wrong with karate?
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White Belt- Shudokan Karate |
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jiu-jitsu fighter
Brown Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 606
Styles: praying mantis, ninjutsu, BJJ,Blauer
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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ITS TERRIBLE, it does not adress the needs of modern day combat and the techniques used in it have not been proved to be usefull in no-hold-barred competitions, its has very poor groundfighting , if any!
and its just not very good compared to the other styles out ther, i mean why would you study karate when you could study, jkd/muay thai/shoot fighting/bjj/silat etc.... you get my point
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"When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,
and most people don't even know how to swim" |
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BKJ1216
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 1145
Location: Yakima, Washington
Styles: Shudokan Karate
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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No actually I didn't get your point. There wan't a valid point in that. Except maybe the part about ground fighitng. What makes all those other sytles so good compared to it.
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White Belt- Shudokan Karate |
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jiu-jitsu fighter
Brown Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 606
Styles: praying mantis, ninjutsu, BJJ,Blauer
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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because they are more intriquite in their attacks and they "have a mind of their own". strategy,counter to counter to counter to counter, they are realistically better in that they do not try jump in the air while spinning and than kick you in the head. they function more realistically than karate.
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"When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,
and most people don't even know how to swim" |
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jmy77
Orange Belt
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 150
Location: Long Island, New York
Styles: White Tiger Kempo Karate
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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In the style of kenpo karate that I am practicing, I have yet to see or hear of spinning kicks and the fact that you state there are no counters prove that you do not know that much about it. The first thing you learn is how to defend, to counter, to react to an action.
In your responce to BJK you state "because they are more intriquite in their attacks and they "have a mind of their own". You mean to tell me that strikes in Kenpo are not intriquite?As far as having a mind of your own that has everything to do with the person and not the style - systems do not have minds. The person whom applies that system has a mind and everyone has and mind of there own. We spend as much time in my school on application as we do on forms and every individual applies these tools differently - using the techniques that work for them best.
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"You don't have to like it, you just have to do it." - Captain Richard Marcinko, USN, Ret.
"Do more than what is required of you." - General George S. Patton
"If you have to step on someone else to stand tall, then you truely are a small person." - ? |
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psychospaz
Yellow Belt
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 88
Styles: Shotokan Karate Green Belt, Freestyle Shootfighting/Submission Wrestling
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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holy hell, thats exactly what my sensai told me to do in a real fight.
run up, 540 kick to the head and then bow after I hit the attacker. JJF, don't be a dumbass. A karateka can be an effective fighter if they train for that. Just because a lot of people in karate don't train for real comat, doesn't mean thatr none do.
Anyways, BJJ and MT etc. mostly are done for sporting purposes, so I'd say they weren't the most effective anyways. Also look at the type of people certain arts attract. A very talented and intelligent striker will be deadly whether they do TKD, MT, Karate or any other striking art. Stick to the "karate doesn't have a good groundfighting game" argument please, as you'll look smarter than saying "karate is a crappy striking art, and they do nothing practical".
Of course crosstraining in grappling and striking can't hurt, and for the "MMA" category, it seems that some of you are assuming that it's the best striking art and the best grappling art.
How about we just agree that it mostly depends on the practitioner, then the situation, then for formal stuff learned. You wanna try jujitsu in a fight vs 3 people? |
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jiu-jitsu fighter
Brown Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 606
Styles: praying mantis, ninjutsu, BJJ,Blauer
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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hey excuse me , bjj and mt were meant for combat and are used for sport because they are popular, karate is used for sport also , and i never said that there are no counters i said that there are more counters to the counters
don't put words in my mouth I WANT TO SEE KARATE AGAINST 3 PEOPLE HOW ABOUT THAT! AND KARATE IS A BIG SPORT, SO DOES THAT MEANS ITS NOT EFFECTIVE, mt used to be used by ancient warrior monks and jujitsu used to be used by japanese samurai, so don't give me that sport bullsh** a bjj guy who has the same amount of training as a karateka can do equally as well as him on the street.
"so i'd say they weren't the most effective anyways" ARE YOU G-D DAMN KIDDING ME !!!!!! LOL
TAKE THAT BACK
my apologies if some of my statements might sound odd to you but, thats my opinion no need to bash the entire art
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"When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,
and most people don't even know how to swim" |
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psychospaz
Yellow Belt
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 88
Styles: Shotokan Karate Green Belt, Freestyle Shootfighting/Submission Wrestling
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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My point is that modern BJJ and MT are pretty much sport oriented. BJJ is not the same jujitsu that samurai learned. MT nowadays I would say is pretty hardcore, but its a sports and the fighters train to fight without killing their opponents for the most part. Judo and TaeKwonDo are sport oriented arts, but a very skilled practitioners can kick serious arts. They are tools. The people make the art, the art does not make the people.
As for karate, the kata an sport aspect keeps a lot of people in karate, and then many soley do karate for these purposes.
As for how well someone can do on the street, I'd say that has more to do with strength, agressiveness, size, and skill. Some people are born fighters, they'll be effective whatever art they do, and if they want to fight, they pick something with a badass reputation. Having a badass reputation doesn't mean its more effective, but it doesn't not mean that.
By the way, which art was I bashing? As for the "dumbass" remark, don't take namecalling like that seriously over the internet. The real thing that bothered me about your post is that you said karate doesn't offer anything effective. Please realize the difference between sport karate and training in karate to fight, and other arts that also have "sport" alternative versions. |
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Radok
Brown Belt
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 601
Location: Florida
Styles: Okinawan Shorin-ryu Karate-do
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I have a few questions comments i must add about this..
1. how can TKD be more effective than MT? I can not think of one single reason why?
2. how can MMA be so low? so if someone was to mix your top two styles they wouldent be as good if they only did one? that logic makes no sense.
3. Okinawan karate..I would really like ot hear how this could be justified as the most effective for self defense?
Im not trying to flame or be rude or anythign but i really fail to see some of the reasoning behind your list. |
The reason, is I am just stating what I think I would be best suited to use. I can only say what I could use best, because I don't know how other people like to fight. I think in MMA, you don't train in any one art long enuff to derive full benifit of that art, so never reaching full potential.
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If you can't laugh at yourself, there's no point. No point in what, you might ask? there's just no point.
Many people seem to take Karate to get a Black Belt, rather than getting a Black Belt to learn Karate. |
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monkeygirl
KF VIP
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 3674
Location: Middle-of-Nowhere, Pennsylvania
Styles: Tae Kwon Do
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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OK this needs to calm down. Thread closed for now until discussion can be civil.
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1st dan & Asst. Instructor TKD 2000-2003
College student... 2 semesters left!
No matter the tune...if you can rock it, rock it hard. |
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on the post.
