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lordtariel
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1709
Location: Oregon
Styles: (Past)Judo, Yang Family Tai Chi, (Current)Shito-Ryu Karate, Kobudo(Tonfajitsu)
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 Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
This is a misconception that has been brought about by fantasy movies and books, and games like D and D. I think it has more to do with the fact that many people associate MA with the East, and therefore, don't look to the West. The Samurai, in contrast, has become over-romanticized, and it seems that everyone is willing to buy into the Samurai idea more. |
Sadly, there hasn't really been many fantasy movies lately with really good, realistic fight scenes.(If there have been, let me know. I'd love to watch them) And the movies that do have good combat tend to lean towards the eastern arts for style. Think of the number of martial arts movies out there and compare them to the number of fantasy movies out there. Kind of lopsided. If we had as many movies with knights and fencers getting crazy with the fighting, we might see a different view emerge.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12696
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| lordtariel wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
This is a misconception that has been brought about by fantasy movies and books, and games like D and D. I think it has more to do with the fact that many people associate MA with the East, and therefore, don't look to the West. The Samurai, in contrast, has become over-romanticized, and it seems that everyone is willing to buy into the Samurai idea more. |
Sadly, there hasn't really been many fantasy movies lately with really good, realistic fight scenes.(If there have been, let me know. I'd love to watch them) And the movies that do have good combat tend to lean towards the eastern arts for style. Think of the number of martial arts movies out there and compare them to the number of fantasy movies out there. Kind of lopsided. If we had as many movies with knights and fencers getting crazy with the fighting, we might see a different view emerge. |
You make a good point, but the same holds true for weapons combat portrayed in Eastern style movies, with Eastern style weapons. Those combat scenes are just as unrealistic, in my opinion. Wire-work and fancy moves.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12696
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
| and plenty of low level samurai probably weren't too much better than the average foot soldier. |
This is an excellent point. The word Samurai simply denotes the warrior class of Japan. It does not denote skill level in war. There were many levels of warrior in Japanese society, just like in any other culture. Not every Samurai was a sword master. Soldier would be a more appropriate English equivalent of the term, I think.
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Sengra
Purple Belt
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 521
Location: Philippines
Styles: Fencing
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| KarateEd wrote: |
I have always been intrigued by fencing and would enjoy studying it, but finding a place that teaches it is difficult.
In Teri Tom's book, Straight Lead: The Core of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, she mentions two people that heavily influenced Bruce Lee, Aldo Nadi (fencing) and Jack Dempsey (boxing), two westerners. I found that interesting.
Ed |
Aldo Nadi? Really? I never knew this...My old fencing master is heavily influenced by nadi...haha..So I got to research about the man...But I never knew this info..  ..Anyway its quite strange for me too..I am a fencer..I only know basic of arnis, karate and jeet combat, and I am a Filipino, while europeans and americans prefer to learn the eastern arts..Acculturation.. ..But this is nice though, as cultures learn to appreciate each other, unlike the bloody past that the east and west have. I still feel that European, and later American plans toward Asia, especially in southeast asia were very much wrong and bigoted (no offense meant), but the martial arts of the present bring ties that transcend such boundaries, and I am very much happy with the developments. 
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BMW
Yellow Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 27
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Western swordsmanship getting some love... |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
In my new issue of Black Belt Magazine, there is an article on Western Swordsmanship, namely, the Saber. Some of the concepts involved in Saber usage are discussed, along with some general Western swordsmanship history. Overall, it is an informative article.
I don't think that Western Swordsmanship gets the respect that it deserves from the Martial Arts community. I think that the art of the sword has been so mystified in the East that many think that it is the only way to be done. The West has a very rich tradition of swordsmanship, and it is very much worth looking into.
I was very excited to see this article in Black Belt, and I think that more articles like this need to pop up in the future. The Martial Traditions of the West are just as rich and useful as those of their Eastern counterparts. |
Just to take the Spanish in particular, they were outstanding horse riders, phenomenal actually, and I can just imagine the intimidation one must have faced when confronting not only riders of that caliber but riders of that caliber wielding swords. Yikes!  |
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Zanshin
Green Belt
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 451
Styles: Wado Ryu Karate, Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu Kenjutsu
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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One of the black belts at our club is, by profession a Knight, in that as his day job, he re-enacts medieval combat at the Tower of London. He is an expert in medieval sword fighting and Italian fencing.
As well as broad sword he does Sabre and foil. (and things with little shields I can’t remember the name of, but he is always complaining hurt his hands)
He is also a flipping good Karate-ka who is not in the slightest bit interested in Japanese sword arts.
Funny that isn't it.
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"The difference between the possible and impossible is one's will"
"saya no uchi de katsu" - Victory in the scabbbard of the sword. (One must obtain victory while the sword is undrawn).
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12696
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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That's cool, Zanshin. I am kind of the same way; I could care less about the Samurai; Medieval Swordsmanship is my interest as well.
The small shield he uses, is it a buckler, maybe?
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Zanshin
Green Belt
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 451
Styles: Wado Ryu Karate, Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu Kenjutsu
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
That's cool, Zanshin. I am kind of the same way; I could care less about the Samurai; Medieval Swordsmanship is my interest as well.
The small shield he uses, is it a buckler, maybe? |
Spot on, that’s the one.
Apparently the gap between your knuckles and the back of the shield is minimal and when it gets clouted hard, your knuckles get it big time.
But guess it’s that or your head.
_________________
"The difference between the possible and impossible is one's will"
"saya no uchi de katsu" - Victory in the scabbbard of the sword. (One must obtain victory while the sword is undrawn).
www.art-of-budo.com |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12696
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's what it sounded like when you explained it. Although it isn't a very big shield, you can do quite a lot with it. I would love to do some sword and buckler training as well. I am living in the wrong area. I need a big metropolitan area where there are groups of these people around.
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Zanshin
Green Belt
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 451
Styles: Wado Ryu Karate, Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu Kenjutsu
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Yeah, that's what it sounded like when you explained it. Although it isn't a very big shield, you can do quite a lot with it. I would love to do some sword and buckler training as well. I am living in the wrong area. I need a big metropolitan area where there are groups of these people around. |
My friend is an actor by trade and got into medieval sword work as part of his stage combat teaching.
At the dojo last night, we exchanged a few ideas. He showed me some "rapier and dagger" techniques which were fun to do. Very circular movements, almost balletic
The discussion arose because we were talking about a school of Kenjutsu called Nitōjutsu where the practitioner uses two swords ie an Odachi (long) and Kodachi (short). It is my understanding that the style was influenced (at some stage) by early European visitors to Japan in the 17th century who commonly used rapier and dagger style techniques.
So just goes to show really that good swordsmanship is good swordsmanship in any part of the world.
_________________
"The difference between the possible and impossible is one's will"
"saya no uchi de katsu" - Victory in the scabbbard of the sword. (One must obtain victory while the sword is undrawn).
www.art-of-budo.com |
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on the post.
