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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12924
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: Western swordsmanship getting some love... |
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In my new issue of Black Belt Magazine, there is an article on Western Swordsmanship, namely, the Saber. Some of the concepts involved in Saber usage are discussed, along with some general Western swordsmanship history. Overall, it is an informative article.
I don't think that Western Swordsmanship gets the respect that it deserves from the Martial Arts community. I think that the art of the sword has been so mystified in the East that many think that it is the only way to be done. The West has a very rich tradition of swordsmanship, and it is very much worth looking into.
I was very excited to see this article in Black Belt, and I think that more articles like this need to pop up in the future. The Martial Traditions of the West are just as rich and useful as those of their Eastern counterparts.
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Neo Dragon
Yellow Belt
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 78
Location: North Carolina
Styles: Shito-ryu Karate, and Rex Kwon Do
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| I also read that article as well. Its funny that even for most of us living in america that we come from europe yet for the most part we know next to nothing about how our ancestors used there weapons. Its nice to read about that sometimes. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12924
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Neo Dragon wrote: |
| I also read that article as well. Its funny that even for most of us living in america that we come from europe yet for the most part we know next to nothing about how our ancestors used there weapons. Its nice to read about that sometimes. |
I agree. There are lots of good sources out there on the subject of Western Martial arts. I have quite a few books on Medieval Swordsmanship, and even one on Medieval Quarterstaff.
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¶ARADOX
Yellow Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 52
Location: somewhere in England, I hate not living In Scotland any more
Styles: Shotokan Karate and some form of aikido/aikijutsu which incorporates strikes and weapons
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately there seems to be no formal kata or equivalent and no Internet sources besides membership to the SCA, which to be honest is far more interested in ancient codes of pomp and chivalry rather than how to actuall USE the war tools of our ancestors, you woulden't think I'd have this problem living in England and Scotland where we're quite proud of our martial history but there is never an opertunity to practice thie martial traditions. Annoying
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12924
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| ¶ARADOX wrote: |
| Unfortunately there seems to be no formal kata or equivalent and no Internet sources besides membership to the SCA, which to be honest is far more interested in ancient codes of pomp and chivalry rather than how to actuall USE the war tools of our ancestors, you woulden't think I'd have this problem living in England and Scotland where we're quite proud of our martial history but there is never an opertunity to practice thie martial traditions. Annoying |
Try this site: www.thearma.org
and...http://www.aemma.org/
There are plenty of books available from Paladin Press and Chivalry Bookshelf as well.
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obiwansbane
Blue Belt
Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 284
Location: Canada
Styles: Open Shotokan,
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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i think the main thing is that when someone thinks samurai, they think efficient masters of the sword, disciplined, etc etc... someone to look up to and admire.. so they seek to be like them by training katana...
when someone (at least me) thinks of European fighting they see big brutes from the medieval times swinging swords, hacking a slashing at their opponents...
the japanese have that aura of mystery about them that makes people far more interested in learning about them
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12924
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| obiwansbane wrote: |
i think the main thing is that when someone thinks samurai, they think efficient masters of the sword, disciplined, etc etc... someone to look up to and admire.. so they seek to be like them by training katana...
when someone (at least me) thinks of European fighting they see big brutes from the medieval times swinging swords, hacking a slashing at their opponents...
the japanese have that aura of mystery about them that makes people far more interested in learning about them |
This is a misconception that has been brought about by fantasy movies and books, and games like D and D. I think it has more to do with the fact that many people associate MA with the East, and therefore, don't look to the West. The Samurai, in contrast, has become over-romanticized, and it seems that everyone is willing to buy into the Samurai idea more.
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KarateEd
KF Sempai
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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I have always been intrigued by fencing and would enjoy studying it, but finding a place that teaches it is difficult.
In Teri Tom's book, Straight Lead: The Core of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, she mentions two people that heavily influenced Bruce Lee, Aldo Nadi (fencing) and Jack Dempsey (boxing), two westerners. I found that interesting.
Ed
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12924
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| KarateEd wrote: |
I have always been intrigued by fencing and would enjoy studying it, but finding a place that teaches it is difficult.
In Teri Tom's book, Straight Lead: The Core of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, she mentions two people that heavily influenced Bruce Lee, Aldo Nadi (fencing) and Jack Dempsey (boxing), two westerners. I found that interesting.
Ed |
I agree, Ed. That is very cool.
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 987
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| obiwansbane wrote: |
i think the main thing is that when someone thinks samurai, they think efficient masters of the sword, disciplined, etc etc... someone to look up to and admire.. so they seek to be like them by training katana...
when someone (at least me) thinks of European fighting they see big brutes from the medieval times swinging swords, hacking a slashing at their opponents...
the japanese have that aura of mystery about them that makes people far more interested in learning about them |
The samurai were not much more 'noble' than the European knight really. Just like the samurai, knights also spent years training in armed and unarmed combat, and had their own moral code that, to me at least, is more compassionate that the Bushido (which was really emphasized after the samurai found themselves out of work in a post warring states Japan and had to justify their class). However just like there are countless instances of thuggish knights, you have the exact same thing with samurai. They could rape, plunder, and pillage with the best of them and while there is no documented historical case of a Ninja assassination, there are plenty of instances of samurai stabbing others in the back. Also you have to keep in mind that not all samurai (or knights) were sword masters- you usually inherited the samurai title instead of earning it, and plenty of low level samurai probably weren't too much better than the average foot soldier. That being said, there were great sword masters and true men of noble character among the samurai ranks, just as there were noble knights who could wield a sword with great ease. The samurai class has its relevance simply because it was around for much longer than the knight was, and once you put a gun into the hand of a conscripted soldier and demolish class stratification of society based on birth rank, the samurai all but dissapeared within less than 100 years.
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