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ShoriKid
Brown Belt
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 727
Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ
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 Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Liver Punch wrote: |
| JusticeZero wrote: |
| "to get in a fight" is a not uncommon motive of going to a bar. |
And here I was using it to get intoxicated... |
....all those wasted beers..I mean years.
Being in a bar/club doesn't preclude something from being self defense. Regardless of the fact that plenty of hard heads go out drinking and attempting to prove how tough they are.
It's self defense when not fighting back, fleeing/talking your way out, would result in more harm to yourself or those who you are with than fighting.
Best thing to do is know the law in the place you stand. In the US each state has it's own self defense statutes. Some have a obligation to retreat and are not very friendly to the ideals of self defense. Others have no such obligation to retreat. Still others allow for the defense of a third party, and enact self defense doctrine when in public, not just on privately held property. Meaning, I can go to the bar to have a few drinks with my buddies, and if someone attacks me, or even a friend (knocks him down with a sucker punch say and then puts the kick on him), I can act in their defense.
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Kisshu fushin, Oni te hotoke kokoro. A demon's hand, a saint's heart. -- Osensei Shoshin Nagamine |
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yamesu
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 956
Location: Oceania <-> Asia
Styles: Kyokushin. JediMantre.
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| MasterPain wrote: |
| JusticeZero wrote: |
If your story starts with "I was hanging out at a bar.." it isn't self defense. |
I have a problem with this one. While they may not be the safest places, an adult has a right to be there. And they have a right to not be attacked. If you behave like a reasonable person, you should be able to avoid trouble, and walk away or redirect anyone who gives you problems. Fights also happen a lot at sporting events and schools. A person can't just lock themselves in their home.
A person should take the risk into account before going, and remain sober enough to be aware of their surroundings, but that if a far cry from saying that it's not self defense if you need to defend yourself. |
Agreed, if I want to share a sake with my friends and catch up, I should be able to do it in an environment that does not present an immediate threat 100% of the time.
Does alcohol binging excacerbate situations to violence? Perhaps some of the time.
Should people have to put up with this? No.
Its really (as you stated in different words) about displaying the perspicacity and awareness to assess the situation one is in, as it presents itself, and acting appropriately therein.
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"We did not inherit this earth from our parents.
We are borrowing it from our children." |
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Shizentai
Blue Belt
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 256
Styles: karate
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| MasterPain wrote: |
| JusticeZero wrote: |
If your story starts with "I was hanging out at a bar.." it isn't self defense. |
I have a problem with this one. While they may not be the safest places, an adult has a right to be there. And they have a right to not be attacked. If you behave like a reasonable person, you should be able to avoid trouble, and walk away or redirect anyone who gives you problems. Fights also happen a lot at sporting events and schools. A person can't just lock themselves in their home.
A person should take the risk into account before going, and remain sober enough to be aware of their surroundings, but that if a far cry from saying that it's not self defense if you need to defend yourself. |
Agreed. To tell you the truth, I employed subtle self defense techniques, oh, probably about once out of every 4 times I went into a bars/clubs in college. I think every girl should learn wrist releases before reaching dating age.
=_= Oh dating ... glad that's over!
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"My work itself is my best signature."
-Kawai Kanjiro |
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shimizu
Yellow Belt
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 39
Location: England
Styles: Shukokai Karate (and ITF Tae Kwon-Do)
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: When needed |
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You should use martial arts seriously only to defend your self or family/friends or the weak. You must never use it unless someone is in actual danger. Don't just go about using martial-arts (as "self-defense") on whomever you want. 
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OSS! Shimizu Yuuhiro Shodan Shukokai Karate-Do
Yoon Kwan Ilgop Kup ITF Tae Kwon-Do |
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shadowspawn
Orange Belt
Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Zaine wrote: |
| One of the most important things that my teacher taught us is that we should always run if we can, fighting is always the last resort. I get that doing that can be seen as cowardly and that can be hard to get around for some martial artists, but I'd rather avoid a confrontation and not get mixed up with a fight in a place that I might not know well against a guy that I probably don't know with the end result of talking to the police and either sending someone to the hospital or going myself. Other than that, Groinstrike and MasterPain have the right of it, it's sometimes black and white when you should, it's sometimes very grey. What you have to do is assess the situation as best you can and decide for yourself whether or not the situation requires any force, or if you can try to talk it out. It may hurt the ego, but sometimes an apology goes a long way. |
I'd say this is pretty accurate. I would like to say that when the time comes that you should fight, you will know. It may sound like corny hollywood blabber but it really does have its points. If you get into a scenario and you have to think "Should I get out of here or should I knock this fool off his feet?", generally speaking, you could probably have walked (or in some cases ran) away. If something happens and you just react and the guy is doubling over in pain by the time you have time to actually think, that's probably the line where it became self defense. Once you regain your ability to conduct rational thought though, that's probably the time to bail and get out of there (unless of course you suspect the guy is carrying a piece and could put a few rounds in your spine as you turn your back). |
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straightblast
Orange Belt
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 129
Styles: close quarter combat
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Going to bars and defending yourself from drunk people 
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Enter-pressure-terminate |
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darksoul
Purple Belt
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 547
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Styles: Shaolin Kempo
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:05 am Post subject: |
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I tend to try to not use my martial arts at all unless someone is wielding a weapon. I've been insulted, pushed, even punched, but I won't really "fight back" with full force and skill. I'll tend to block or deflect strikes and try to subdue them without hitting them. It's happened only once where I had no choice and ended up just giving them a good thrust punch in the sternum. That knocked the wind out of them and put them on the floor. At that moment, I just lifted my hands, said we're done, and walked away.
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Shodan - Shaolin Kempo
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darksoul
Purple Belt
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 547
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Styles: Shaolin Kempo
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Oh and hi!  I'm new here
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Shodan - Shaolin Kempo
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on the post.
