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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12235
Location: Houston, TX and/or Van Nuys, CA
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Here are more details for the hypothetical dojo being discussed:

The location is in a city of about 600 000 people
No other places teach the same thing, the closest dojo offering something similar is at least 10hrs drive away.
Besides the instructor, there is no staff or assistants of any kind.
The dojo is limited to the bare minimum of a rented space with basic utilities, toilets and changing area.

Nothing like going back in the future. A time when the dojo's were very similar to this hypothetical dojo...bare minimum across the board. Sprinkle of MA schools, here and there, and anything similar across the city.

Size of this city offers a moderate amount of prospective students, IF, you can reel them in and keep them. Do research about that city to get a better understanding as to what your price point might be.

City in similar size: Milwaukee, Wisconsin...600,155 in population. Shouldn't be too difficulty to attract prospective students...96 square miles. No matter the size of the city, you, the CI, will need to bring them in, and you, the CI will lose them; quality over quantity!!



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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 1962
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pred wrote:
Well first I think as people noted before you need to understand your demographic. Second ownership vs rent can be a big difference. Second if you are paying for staff how much is one putting out in payroll?


For my dojo; only our senior instructors receive reimbursement dependent on how often you teach and for how many hours.

I don't actively receive reimbursement due to only teaching for 2 hours a week at the dojo. Unless I additionally assist at Gradings which will push my teaching hours to 4-7 hours. In which I would receive AUD$100 (USD$75).

That is true the difference between physically owning your building or space vs. renting can be thousands to your bottom line on a annual basis.
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hammer
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 348

Styles: Kyokushin, TKD

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lupin1 wrote:
A lot of it depends on where you live.

Here $100 for 3x a week would be an amazing deal. The cheapest I've found around here, other than my free program, is around $100 a month for 2x a week and that was a school where it wasn't the instructors' main job and they only held those two classes a week and it's in a smaller town sort of in the middle of nowhere.

The average in this area for a commercial dojo with full time instructors and multiple programs seems to run around $120 for 2-3 time per week.

The most expensive in this area is Buzz Durkin's school-- $200 a month with a contract and deposit or $275 a month without a contract. And that's for 100 lessons a year, which averages to less than twice a week. Granted, they're an amazing school with a lot of amenities and great training, but I consider that outrageous. He's in a very well off town (it's actually the town I work in) and people there are willing to pay it, but it's too rich for my blood, unfortunately (if it were closer to $150 a month, that's totally where I'd be).


The dojo I attend in NH is $90 for 2 classes/week (I can go to 3 but the third class is not open to junior students or kids). Personally I would be OK with up to $100/month for 3 classes/week.

Tournaments and other special classes (which are entirely optional) can add up to a lot more...mainly because of the travel/lodging costs.
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Spartacus Maximus
Member of the Month
Member of the Month

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1239

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To make things clear and add details to our fictional dojo, here is a recap:

100$ a month for 3 days a week plus weekends: 5days total. No contracts of any kind. The price is the same for everyone. One training session is an hour and a half long. Saturday and Sunday are semi-private and open to anyone who can attend. On weekends training is 2 hours.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 1332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple questions...

How many classes available per night? Is it just one class where kids and adults train together, are they split, and/or is there a split in ranks?

Are weekend private lesson included with tuition, or are they extra?

I don't see anything wrong with what you've stated, just looking for clarification.

Our dojo has 2 classes every night Monday-Thursday. Monday is kids followed by adults, Tuesday is kata class followed by advanced class (4th kyu and up adults), Wednesday is adults followed by black belt adults, Thursday and Saturday are kids followed by adults. Adults and kids classes are all ranks, except advanced class and black belt class.

The big dojos in my area will typically have about 4 classes per night, separating kids and adults, and low ranks and high ranks. We're not a big dojo; about 40 students total, about 50/50 kids to adults.

I think one of the most important things is class times. Get the times right and you'll do well; get them wrong and no one will show up, even if they want to. There were two dojos I was interested in when I restarted that I didn't visit. Neither one had enough classes offered when I could attend. One was a Kyokushin dojo that had adult classes two nights a week - the same two nights and times that I work late. I couldn't even visit if I tried, and that place was #2 on my short list to visit.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 1332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you teach children, you should probably shorten their class to 45 minutes and charge a bit less than adults. If no children, disregard.

Children are important though. They quite often bring in adults who stay long after they've lost interest. 3/4 of the adults in my dojo brought their kids in and decided to stop watching and start training after a few months. Only one of that group has kids who still train there.
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Spartacus Maximus
Member of the Month
Member of the Month

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1239

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tuition given includes all training days and weekends. There are no other costs. The dojo accepts anyone who is at least 12 years old. Everyone is together at first, but groups based on age and level may be if and when numbers allow it.
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MatsuShinshii
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 337
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience for typical rates around here $100 is a starting amount for large schools and a medium amount for smaller schools. If you can operate at $100 a month then you will probably pull in enough students to keep the doors open. Most are between $75 and $145 a month.

Just be mindful of your base income and cost of living for your area. Look up typical rates for schools in your area and look at what your rent is and charge accordingly. Make sure you look at schools that have been in business for more than a few years. They will give you a better representation of the typical costs.
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