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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12359
Location: Houston, TX and/or Van Nuys, CA
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Your Thoughts, Please!! Reply with quote

How does one start a "governing body" without it being a governing body??

Is that even possible??

Won't an affiliation be a prerequisite of a governing body??

How does a "governing body" sustain without politics??





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The Pred
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 296

Styles: Goju Ryu

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think one does. However, does one need to have a governing body? If the school is small say 300 people.
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MatsuShinshii
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 371
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Your Thoughts, Please!! Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
How does one start a "governing body" without it being a governing body??

Is that even possible??

Won't an affiliation be a prerequisite of a governing body??

How does a "governing body" sustain without politics??


Not sure if I can answer this but if your looking for representation for a student body without micromanagement, I would say get a few fellow instructors with no will or desire to rule together to just enforce good quality instruction and don't worry about the rest. Teach and maintain the integrity of the art and let politics be other organizations problems.

I know this is overly simplified but in reality the objective we all had starting out was to pass on the art, not sit on a board and discuss the daily going on's of the organization. I personally don't see anything wrong with an independent instructor teaching his students without oversight and representation. Of course this poses problems like giving legitimacy to your students credentials but lets face it. Your a Kudan. You can start your own thing and run it however you would like without the hassles of political gobbly goop.

Sustaining without the oversight of a governing body would be pretty much like being independent. I don't think it's an issue, as long as the instruction is good the students will continue and believe me they will not care. The problem is that you always have those that crave power over others even if their initial intentions were pure. I would say find like minded instructors to start up with and establish simple rules like "we will no govern other than to maintain the integrity of instruction.

The question... are you thinking of starting your own thing outside of your old organization?
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 1983
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I feel like a governing body is essential where a school grows in excess of 200 students or multiple sites.

It is possible to start a governing body, where the person who starts it has previous experience in working for one.

if you were to start one, i feel like you should have insight to how various governing bodies operate as to see how they do their thing.

To sustain one without politics would be difficult due to the nature of how people want to run things. If it were up to me I would set out certain policies that have been seen as reasonable by various people that would not have a stake in said governing body.

And even then said policies would be reviewed yearly to ensure that everything is in line with the governing bodies values and goals. And if anyone had problems with said policies they would voice their concerns and why.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12359
Location: Houston, TX and/or Van Nuys, CA
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Your Thoughts, Please!! Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
How does one start a "governing body" without it being a governing body??

Is that even possible??

Won't an affiliation be a prerequisite of a governing body??

How does a "governing body" sustain without politics??


Not sure if I can answer this but if your looking for representation for a student body without micromanagement, I would say get a few fellow instructors with no will or desire to rule together to just enforce good quality instruction and don't worry about the rest. Teach and maintain the integrity of the art and let politics be other organizations problems.

I know this is overly simplified but in reality the objective we all had starting out was to pass on the art, not sit on a board and discuss the daily going on's of the organization. I personally don't see anything wrong with an independent instructor teaching his students without oversight and representation. Of course this poses problems like giving legitimacy to your students credentials but lets face it. Your a Kudan. You can start your own thing and run it however you would like without the hassles of political gobbly goop.

Sustaining without the oversight of a governing body would be pretty much like being independent. I don't think it's an issue, as long as the instruction is good the students will continue and believe me they will not care. The problem is that you always have those that crave power over others even if their initial intentions were pure. I would say find like minded instructors to start up with and establish simple rules like "we will no govern other than to maintain the integrity of instruction.

The question... are you thinking of starting your own thing outside of your old organization?

Solid post, MatsuShinshii!!

To the bold type above...

The thought did cross my mind...just being honest!!

The terror of the whole ordeal within the SKKA has come to a boil way faster than I had predicted.

I've received numerous phone calls and letters and emails and texts from quite a few CI's within the SKKA network. I've received a few phone calls from Hugh Beckworth, the SKKA's outside attorney.

Each of these have voiced their concerns, in which I've simply replied...

"Even though I deeply care about the SKKA's Student Body, the SKKA in itself is no longer my concern, and in that, I honestly don't care one way or another; it's their bed, now lie in it".

75% of the CI's within the SKKA's network have resigned their charter membership effective immediate. Why? Each of these CI's have been CI's of their respective dojo within the SKKA network for quite some time. In that, they each remember what atrocities Iwao committed when he was San Dai-Soke, in which, they want no part of him and his leadership in any capacity.

That's 45 dojo's that have removed their charter membership/SKKA decals off their front door(s), as well as removing their charter membership/SKKA Certifications off their walls. They are distancing themselves from the SKKA in every way possible, and if need be, they'll go on their own. They've nothing to do with anything that Iwao is in charge of!! They made that clear to Hugh, and to me, as well. Why tell me? I've no idea, yet I appreciate their vote of confidence in me.

With that being said, that means that only 16 CI's/Dojo's within the SKKA remain, for the moment. The bleeding hasn't stopped all the way, if it will at all.

When it rains, it pours!!



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The Pred
Blue Belt
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Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 296

Styles: Goju Ryu

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

61 dojos, when you opened your school as a San Dan were you one of the first people to open a SKKA school outside the hombu
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12359
Location: Houston, TX and/or Van Nuys, CA
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pred wrote:
61 dojos, when you opened your school as a San Dan were you one of the first people to open a SKKA school outside the hombu

No!! Not even close!!

Hombu opened in 1957, I became a Sandan in 1977; that's a 20 year history; other dojo's were well established way before I opened my first dojo.




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Bulltahr
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 351
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was a betting man I would not be surprised if those 41 dojos will be looking in your direction moving forward.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12359
Location: Houston, TX and/or Van Nuys, CA
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulltahr wrote:
If I was a betting man I would not be surprised if those 41 dojos will be looking in your direction moving forward.

It's quite possible, but for the moment, I'm not even the slightest interested. If I was to be interested, and right now, "if" is a very big word, beyond just a passing notion, many things would have to be changed.

As far fetched as this might seem...

For one, the politics unfortunately can't be ignored because the politics keep the governing body from completely unraveling at the seams. However, the politics can be lessened to a minimum, even more so than how the SKKA's By-Laws and such are at currently. I'm not criticizing what Soke wrote in the original By-Laws, nor am I criticizing what the rewritten By-Laws suggest, and enforce.

No, but what I'm criticizing is the To-many-chef's-in-the-kitchen mentality!! Way to many authorization types at the wheel at the SKKA. How so??

Kaicho
Kancho
Regents (5 elected members)
Department Heads (25+ selected members)
Legal Team (Outside agency)
Misc.

Take a look at this KF link...

http://www.karateforums.com/a-glimpse-into-a-hombu-vt36501.html?highlight=glimpse

At the reorganization of the SKKA after what Iwao pulled off, a glimpse into the SKKA has had the landscaped altered for cause!!

I'd eliminate ALL of any and all levels of the Hierarchy, right down to the bare bone; stripping it clean of any proposed authorization types with one exception...keeping a Kaicho and Kancho!!

No Regents!!
No Legal Team!!
No Department Heads!!

Rewrite the By-Laws to reflect that new structure all the way from 'A' to 'Z' and back!!

Restructure the Ranking System to be how it was when there was just Soke and Dai-Soke, before they moved to the USA from Okinawa:

White
Brown
Black

Return the power back to the CI's!! At the moment, and it's been this way for quite a very long time, any CI can test/promote without involving the "Hombu". Also, any CI can test/promote for Godan and up PROVIDING that the CI possess an acceptable Dan rank to do so, with their own Testing Board and the like.

I'd still keep a Central Archive as well as a Central Records. All extra sensitive materials, like Inkan Stamps, Certificates, and the like still under lock and key with only Kaicho and Kancho having access. I've a copy of BOTH By-Laws, the original as well as the revamped, any and all pertinent and sensitive materials, Inkan Stamps, Certificates, Densho Scrolls, and whatever else. Both the Kaicho and the Kancho are given these materials in case a fire and/or theft and/or any other possibility should ever happen. That way, we're protected as well as able to still hit the ground feet running. This hasn't been like this before. Before, any and all sensitive materials were kept at the Hombu behind closed doors under lock and key with very, very few were authorized access to that room. My copies are held in a bank safe deposit box, and not at my home!!

I'd possibly kill the "Hombu" appearances through and through. That means I'd be killing off the Annual Testing Cycle held every June/July, and making it mandatory for all Godan and up testing candidates to only test at the "Hombu".

The "Hombu" is a central location for all of the rules and regulations for the governing body!! I'd be interesting in killing the governing body all together!! But do we have to have a "Hombu". If I was the Kaicho, it could be ran out of my dojo, and call my dojo, my dojo: Kyuodan Dojo.

Change is inevitable, and I'm for that, and it must be done immediately. It's time to join modern times across the board. It's time to return all authority over many things, not everything, back to the CI's!! Who knows their Student Body better than the CI?? NO ONE!! The "Hombu" knows the vast majority of the Student Body from afar, and not personally. Therefore, how can the "Hombu" decide for that CI's Student Body?? They can't!!

Yes, the "Hombu" could still maintain Rank integrity by asking the CI's to send in any and all testing records to the Central Records, which would be maintained at my dojo. Once I reviewed and logged all pertinent materials, I'd send to the CI a Letter of Approval.

But we could also, just let the CI's do their own recording and the like. If I'm wanting to kill the "Hombu" and the "Hierarchy" all together, and we just all agree to maintain ranking integrity and the like, then by God, let's do just very thing!!

*Kill the Kaicho!!
*Kill the Kancho!!
*Kill the "Hombu"
*Kill the To-many-chef's-in-the-kitchen
*Kill the Hierarchy
*Kill anything and everything that limits the training and teaching of Shindokan Saitou-ryu

As a group, we'd need to practice to avoid even the appearance of impropriety across the board.

The only thing that I'd still keep an eye out for is the resurgence of any politics, if this is even possible! The less politics the better...for all concerned!!

Change must be made, but what exactly, that would have to be sorted out between any and all of the CI's somehow and someway, but even that, might be a far fetched reality.

If a agreeable settlement of actions can be reached, then a written agreement must be completed with each and every single CI. But, even that right there, introduces politics where it's not needed nor wanted.

So, I suppose, I'll just train on my own and let the dogs of war have their day without me!! There's no way to have these many CI's and students without having some type of politics and the like, whether one likes it or not!!

I'm on the fence!! That's because I don't know how it would work, if it could ever work!! It's a sticky thing, this is to be for sure!!

Any comments, suggestions, and the like would be appreciated!! You all know me, I don't need to be in charge of anything, I'm not on a power trip; never have, never will!! I just want to teach and train!!

If an agreeable parameters can't be reached. Then so be it!! I'll open my Kyuodan Dojo, and teach my students Shindokan, and to heck with everyone else. I don't want, nor do I need affiliations, nor do I want anyone's approval because I'll just let the floor speak for me and my students!!

I'd like to believe that anything and everything is possible, and I do want the possibilities because I desire what's the best for the ENTIRE STUDENT BODY; their needs before my needs!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the rant!




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MatsuShinshii
Green Belt
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 371
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everything except maybe one.

I agree wholeheartedly with giving power to the CI's and taking it away from a politically motivated board.

However you have to really look at the checks and balances when it comes to promoting Kodansha grades. This could back fire and what I mean by that is simply... without oversight it is possible as with any organization that not all CI's agree with requirements. Maintaining a high degree of integrity in overseeing the upper echelon grades goes a long way into maintaining the integrity of the art itself. If one CI, lets say a Hachidan, promotes a Godan and has high expectations and another CI, again a Hachidan, promotes a Godan with lesser expectations and requirements you end up with degradation of the art.

I do not so much have a problem with Yudansha grades being promoted at the School level providing that the instructor has sufficient grade and there is a board of at least three to maintain fairness, balance and integrity. But when it comes to the Kodansha grades (Godan to Kudan/Judan) an extra bit of checks and balances are required.

This is an easy way to allow favoritism to creep in and ruin the intergity of the grade system within your art. An example would be, one CI has high grading and can promote to said grade. He thinks his kid deserves to be graded to the maximum grade he is allowed to promote to. Say he's a Kudan and he is allowed to promote to Nanadan or Hachidan (as in some arts). Now lets say the Kaicho years later retires and he himself retires and the organization is looking to promote the next Kaicho. Since he was promoted up the ranks, most likely faster than most and is now senior to all others his name is put in for Kaicho (Soke or whatever you utilize).

How is that maintaining the integrity of the art and it's instructors. Lets say you as Kaicho got word or realized this and your last decree was to promote someone of lesser grade than this Hachidan. Now the organization is in a war because some will feel that since he is senior he deserves it. Or name any number of scenarios. The point is without oversight outside of the Dojo level anything can and will happen.

Might I suggest that the Kaicho/Kancho is present at all Kodansha promotions. That would at least give oversight and maintain integrity within the promotion process.

I'm a firm believer in one rule fits all. Requirements are requirements and not meant to be superseded for any reason. If they are maintained the end result is qualified, deserving recipients of their grades. Anything less and you have some that deserve and some that do not.

Me personally, I like my association when it was ran by one instead of many. The reason, the same expectations and requirements across the board. No disagreements, no promoting your friends on that basis, no belts for bucks. Everyone lived by the same rules and no one got a leg up without earning it. One man oversees the future of the art and maintains it's integrity (of course this has it's flaws if that man is not a man of high integrity and moral fabric). Again I am all for promotions from Shodan to Yondan at the Dojo level providing the CI has a sufficient grade to promote but once you achieve the Kodansha grades it should have a greater oversight than just at the Dojo level. Even with in the Yudansha gradings I would feel that documentation would have to be somewhere in the mix in terms multiple instructors of sufficient grade to test or at the very least sending in a video of the recipients testing so that there is some small amount of oversight.

If it were me it would be Kaicho - student body - nothing else. But again that is just me.

By the way love the white, brown, black. Could not agree more. But you know I would take it a step further and just have white, black. However knowing you teach children this would probably cause temper tantrums and mental melt downs on the Dojo floor.
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