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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2359
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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 Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| FangPwnsAll7 wrote: |
| Nidan Melbourne wrote: |
| FangPwnsAll7 wrote: |
| There's an eight year old black belt with very bad discipline. He doesn't listen to anything he's told and he shows off his rank. He thinks because he is a black belt, he can do anything he wants. |
Thats really bad that he doesn't listen to anyone. How old was he when he started karate? because an 8 year old getting their black belt sounds a bit off to me. This is because at all the dojo's i've trained at the minimum age to start is 6 and takes on average 3+ years to get their black belt.
At my old dojo, their hombu runs "mighty mights" for 4 + 5 year olds but they don't get to transfer that rank over, due to the different curriculum taught. |
He started when he was four. |
Ok now that makes sense. How is the Chief Instructor dealing with the child? As in discipline etc |
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FangPwnsAll7
Green Belt
Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 377
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Styles: Tang Soo Do
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| He takes off his belt and gives him a white belt temporarily. |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2359
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| FangPwnsAll7 wrote: |
| He takes off his belt and gives him a white belt temporarily. |
For a class or longer? What i've seen some instructors take the belt from the student and not give a belt to them until they have learnt their lesson. They could be say a black belt and they would lose it until there has been a change.
Do they get to be in their normal spot in line to bow in and out? No
Are they recognized for the rank they are meant to hold? No
Do they get to train with people of the same rank they are meant to be? No
Once they have learnt their lesson in the eyes of the head instructor they receive their belt back. If they are a kyu ranked student, they will not get tested at any point until they have learnt their lesson.
They will not get their belt back until that point in time behavior has changed. Completely irrelevant of whether they are due for grading or a test. IF they are due for Grading they CANNOT attend that grading.
Be it for 1 lesson or for 10 lessons, it doesn't matter. If the parents don't like it we do explain to them why we did what we did. |
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FangPwnsAll7
Green Belt
Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 377
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Styles: Tang Soo Do
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Nidan Melbourne wrote: |
| FangPwnsAll7 wrote: |
| He takes off his belt and gives him a white belt temporarily. |
For a class or longer? What i've seen some instructors take the belt from the student and not give a belt to them until they have learnt their lesson. They could be say a black belt and they would lose it until there has been a change.
Do they get to be in their normal spot in line to bow in and out? No
Are they recognized for the rank they are meant to hold? No
Do they get to train with people of the same rank they are meant to be? No
Once they have learnt their lesson in the eyes of the head instructor they receive their belt back. If they are a kyu ranked student, they will not get tested at any point until they have learnt their lesson.
They will not get their belt back until that point in time behavior has changed. Completely irrelevant of whether they are due for grading or a test. IF they are due for Grading they CANNOT attend that grading.
Be it for 1 lesson or for 10 lessons, it doesn't matter. If the parents don't like it we do explain to them why we did what we did. |
They get it taken off for a few classes. |
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Melau
Yellow Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 63
Location: Netherlands
Styles: Wado-Ryu, Jiu-Jitsu, Boxing
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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What I find most striking in most of the replies / posts here, is that a Shodan or higher is awarded in the Dojo most of the times. Over here (Netherlands) we have a national, central karate 'agency' (in lack of better translation skills) called 'Karate Bond Nederland (KBN)'.
THe KBN holds gradings twice a year (for the styles Kyokushinkai, Shotokan, Wado, Gojo-Ryu), where the examiners / testers bold a minimum of 4th degree and have had an additional 3 years of training (apart from their normal karate training) in the skills of teaching, self-defence, karate history but also how to start and run a Dojo that is nationally recognized as a proper Dojo.
Success rates of the Shodan exams are around 50%, and grading is not allowed before the age of 17 and karatekas are tested on stamina, knowledge (theoretical and practical) of kata, kihon, renraku waza, kata, kumite (sanbon, ippon, ohyo, kihon), and jiyu gumite (sparring). It must also be demonstrated in the techniques that a proper amount of training has been done, which can be seen in execution of said techniques.
Wouldn't it create a certain bias in the examiners / testers if somebody is graded for a Shodan or higher, and this individual has trained in that Dojo for a long time? Isn't it better to have an objective agency test the individual, without prior knowledge on the karateka? So that there is a common degree of mastery between the karatekas when obtaining Shodan? |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2359
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Melau wrote: |
What I find most striking in most of the replies / posts here, is that a Shodan or higher is awarded in the Dojo most of the times. Over here (Netherlands) we have a national, central karate 'agency' (in lack of better translation skills) called 'Karate Bond Nederland (KBN)'.
THe KBN holds gradings twice a year (for the styles Kyokushinkai, Shotokan, Wado, Gojo-Ryu), where the examiners / testers bold a minimum of 4th degree and have had an additional 3 years of training (apart from their normal karate training) in the skills of teaching, self-defence, karate history but also how to start and run a Dojo that is nationally recognized as a proper Dojo.
Success rates of the Shodan exams are around 50%, and grading is not allowed before the age of 17 and karatekas are tested on stamina, knowledge (theoretical and practical) of kata, kihon, renraku waza, kata, kumite (sanbon, ippon, ohyo, kihon), and jiyu gumite (sparring). It must also be demonstrated in the techniques that a proper amount of training has been done, which can be seen in execution of said techniques.
Wouldn't it create a certain bias in the examiners / testers if somebody is graded for a Shodan or higher, and this individual has trained in that Dojo for a long time? Isn't it better to have an objective agency test the individual, without prior knowledge on the karateka? So that there is a common degree of mastery between the karatekas when obtaining Shodan? |
So it is your national association then for all styles? |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Nidan Melbourne wrote: |
| Melau wrote: |
What I find most striking in most of the replies / posts here, is that a Shodan or higher is awarded in the Dojo most of the times. Over here (Netherlands) we have a national, central karate 'agency' (in lack of better translation skills) called 'Karate Bond Nederland (KBN)'.
THe KBN holds gradings twice a year (for the styles Kyokushinkai, Shotokan, Wado, Gojo-Ryu), where the examiners / testers bold a minimum of 4th degree and have had an additional 3 years of training (apart from their normal karate training) in the skills of teaching, self-defence, karate history but also how to start and run a Dojo that is nationally recognized as a proper Dojo.
Success rates of the Shodan exams are around 50%, and grading is not allowed before the age of 17 and karatekas are tested on stamina, knowledge (theoretical and practical) of kata, kihon, renraku waza, kata, kumite (sanbon, ippon, ohyo, kihon), and jiyu gumite (sparring). It must also be demonstrated in the techniques that a proper amount of training has been done, which can be seen in execution of said techniques.
Wouldn't it create a certain bias in the examiners / testers if somebody is graded for a Shodan or higher, and this individual has trained in that Dojo for a long time? Isn't it better to have an objective agency test the individual, without prior knowledge on the karateka? So that there is a common degree of mastery between the karatekas when obtaining Shodan? |
So it is your national association then for all styles? |
That was my question, as well. How many different styles can you test for, and how does that affect the judges that sit on the panels?
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Melau
Yellow Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 63
Location: Netherlands
Styles: Wado-Ryu, Jiu-Jitsu, Boxing
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Nidan Melbourne wrote: |
| Melau wrote: |
What I find most striking in most of the replies / posts here, is that a Shodan or higher is awarded in the Dojo most of the times. Over here (Netherlands) we have a national, central karate 'agency' (in lack of better translation skills) called 'Karate Bond Nederland (KBN)'.
THe KBN holds gradings twice a year (for the styles Kyokushinkai, Shotokan, Wado, Gojo-Ryu), where the examiners / testers bold a minimum of 4th degree and have had an additional 3 years of training (apart from their normal karate training) in the skills of teaching, self-defence, karate history but also how to start and run a Dojo that is nationally recognized as a proper Dojo.
Success rates of the Shodan exams are around 50%, and grading is not allowed before the age of 17 and karatekas are tested on stamina, knowledge (theoretical and practical) of kata, kihon, renraku waza, kata, kumite (sanbon, ippon, ohyo, kihon), and jiyu gumite (sparring). It must also be demonstrated in the techniques that a proper amount of training has been done, which can be seen in execution of said techniques.
Wouldn't it create a certain bias in the examiners / testers if somebody is graded for a Shodan or higher, and this individual has trained in that Dojo for a long time? Isn't it better to have an objective agency test the individual, without prior knowledge on the karateka? So that there is a common degree of mastery between the karatekas when obtaining Shodan? |
So it is your national association then for all styles? |
That was my question, as well. How many different styles can you test for, and how does that affect the judges that sit on the panels? |
The examiners are style specific, so the exams for Kyokushinkai are judged by Kyokushinkai examiners, Wado examiners for Wado exams, etc. They do not "cross-judge".
So the exams are judged by experts from that specific style (Kyokushinkai, Wado, Shotokan, Dento Shito Ryu, Inoue-ha Shito Ryu, Gojo-Ryu).
Furthermore, there are minimal waiting periods between Shodan --> Nidan (2 years), Nidan --> Sandan (3 years), etc. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Nidan Melbourne wrote: |
| FangPwnsAll7 wrote: |
| He takes off his belt and gives him a white belt temporarily. |
For a class or longer? What i've seen some instructors take the belt from the student and not give a belt to them until they have learnt their lesson. They could be say a black belt and they would lose it until there has been a change.
Do they get to be in their normal spot in line to bow in and out? No
Are they recognized for the rank they are meant to hold? No
Do they get to train with people of the same rank they are meant to be? No
Once they have learnt their lesson in the eyes of the head instructor they receive their belt back. If they are a kyu ranked student, they will not get tested at any point until they have learnt their lesson.
They will not get their belt back until that point in time behavior has changed. Completely irrelevant of whether they are due for grading or a test. IF they are due for Grading they CANNOT attend that grading.
Be it for 1 lesson or for 10 lessons, it doesn't matter. If the parents don't like it we do explain to them why we did what we did. |
I can see that backfiring! How so? Demoralizing, at least, is a way that's not helpful to a struggling student, no matter rank. Imho, attack the problem and NOT the person. Kids often wear their emotions on their sleeves and this can emotionally scar kids.
However, if it's done with a loving and compassionate overtone, and explained properly, I can see this way being advantageous to all students, no matter rank and age.
If the student(s) doesn't qualify to test, then don't allow them to test. Let the student(s) know exactly what area's they need to improve, and then help them to improve!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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kinetickick
White Belt
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 19
Location: tuoelo, ms
Styles: tkd, jiu jitsu
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on the post.
