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MasterPain
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Training for this is difficult across the board. It'll be missing the reality of what happens on the street. This means this...when everyone "knows" what's taking place during these drills before they even happen...effectiveness takes the back seat quite quickly.

False securities are birthed, and take the place of sensibilities.



This is where scenario training comes in handy. Set up a situation where you don't know when your partner will attack you or with what.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14983
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterPain wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Training for this is difficult across the board. It'll be missing the reality of what happens on the street. This means this...when everyone "knows" what's taking place during these drills before they even happen...effectiveness takes the back seat quite quickly.

False securities are birthed, and take the place of sensibilities.



This is where scenario training comes in handy. Set up a situation where you don't know when your partner will attack you or with what.

I concur...solid post!!


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Drew
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 169

Styles: Submission Wrestling, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have posted this link on this site before, but I think you would be hard pressed to overstate the value of this video for multiple aggressor situations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHG2Us4_Js4

He stacks them up, as most of you here think should be done, does his best to knock the one in front of him out, and looks cool doing it, always a plus. I think I counted five attackers in that one as well. I wonder if this guy trained for this situation or just trained in boxing? I assume he is a boxer, maybe he just came out of the womb swinging naturally

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MasterPain
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stance and punching technique that clean has to be trained. The stacking of the other guys seems to be common sense, but it was very well executed.
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6260
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew wrote:
I may have posted this link on this site before, but I think you would be hard pressed to overstate the value of this video for multiple aggressor situations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHG2Us4_Js4

He stacks them up, as most of you here think should be done, does his best to knock the one in front of him out, and looks cool doing it, always a plus. I think I counted five attackers in that one as well. I wonder if this guy trained for this situation or just trained in boxing? I assume he is a boxer, maybe he just came out of the womb swinging naturally


I've seen this before, I think he was a semi-pro boxer or something along those lines.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28209
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've seen that as well. Trying to stack up the bad guys is the way I try to go in class. The problem I have is that since the contact is very severe, no one is afraid of trying to run through and around your techniques, making it all fall apart.
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Montana
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 823
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've fought (for real) 3 people at the same time. DEFINITELY stacking is the best way.

That video is an excellent example of a man with skills VS other men without skills (apparently). He kept moving, which is key. Standing in one spot gives your opponents time to manuever around you and attack from behind, which can be lethal!

Another thing is to use your environment environment to your advantage. If you hare between parked cars that limits the attack angles an opponent can come at you. Another thing are telephone poles or such. Put them between you and an opponent if possible.

Taking an opponent to the ground and tryibng to get a submission in a multiple attacker scenerio is STUPID! Shile you're tied up with obne opponent makibng him say "Uncle", the others will kick your brains in.

Stay on your feet and keep moving, as the video showed. Deal hard, solid and disabling blows to any available target and attempt to put them down as quickly as possible.
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Groinstrike
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 923
Location: Richland County
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do, BJJ M

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points made by Montana, I am also in favor turning an attacker into a human sheild. Trying to work behind the intitial attacker, execute a sheet throw or some other control and drag him around, keeping him between you and your attackers while threatening great harm upon him, may buy you your chance to escape.
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tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6852
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montana wrote:
I've fought (for real) 3 people at the same time. DEFINITELY stacking is the best way.

That video is an excellent example of a man with skills VS other men without skills (apparently). He kept moving, which is key. Standing in one spot gives your opponents time to manuever around you and attack from behind, which can be lethal!

Another thing is to use your environment environment to your advantage. If you hare between parked cars that limits the attack angles an opponent can come at you. Another thing are telephone poles or such. Put them between you and an opponent if possible.

Taking an opponent to the ground and tryibng to get a submission in a multiple attacker scenerio is STUPID! Shile you're tied up with obne opponent makibng him say "Uncle", the others will kick your brains in.

Stay on your feet and keep moving, as the video showed. Deal hard, solid and disabling blows to any available target and attempt to put them down as quickly as possible.


I agree. I do want to point out; however, that a lot of people (I'm not saying you, just generalizing) fail to realize that you can end up on the ground regardless of how little you want to. For this reason, cross training in a grappling art (at a bare minimum) is a mandatory concern for an artist concerned with self defense (as is escalation to modern weapons usage, ect.).

Not only will this give you a better chance of actually getting back to your feet while sustaining a little damage as possible while down, but it will give you attacks from the tie up where striking is minimally effective. Let's not forget that tapping or getting someone to say "uncle" is in place of actually breaking stuff up and putting people to sleep. Much in the same way that standing joint manipulation in more traditional arts is often misunderstood in this manner, people often forget that any art designed to break up joint has value beyond the "tap".

I'm not saying that you're overlooking these things, just that they often are when people make the above argument.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28209
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you, tallgeese. You may not want to go to the ground, but that doesn't mean you won't end up there. Knowing how to move and get back up is important. Snapping a bone while on the ground really quick would be a good way to drop one of the attackers out of the mix.
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