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MasterPain
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou
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 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Training for this is difficult across the board. It'll be missing the reality of what happens on the street. This means this...when everyone "knows" what's taking place during these drills before they even happen...effectiveness takes the back seat quite quickly.
False securities are birthed, and take the place of sensibilities.
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This is where scenario training comes in handy. Set up a situation where you don't know when your partner will attack you or with what.
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My fists bleed death. -Akuma |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| MasterPain wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
Training for this is difficult across the board. It'll be missing the reality of what happens on the street. This means this...when everyone "knows" what's taking place during these drills before they even happen...effectiveness takes the back seat quite quickly.
False securities are birthed, and take the place of sensibilities.
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This is where scenario training comes in handy. Set up a situation where you don't know when your partner will attack you or with what. |
I concur...solid post!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Drew
Orange Belt
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 189
Location: My other body
Styles: Boxing, Muay Thai, Sub Wrestling, Tai Chi, MMA, Medieval, Extreme Reaction Combat Scenarios (This is not a drill) Judo, formerly Mishima Style Karate
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I may have posted this link on this site before, but I think you would be hard pressed to overstate the value of this video for multiple aggressor situations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHG2Us4_Js4
He stacks them up, as most of you here think should be done, does his best to knock the one in front of him out, and looks cool doing it, always a plus. I think I counted five attackers in that one as well. I wonder if this guy trained for this situation or just trained in boxing? I assume he is a boxer, maybe he just came out of the womb swinging naturally
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MasterPain
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Stance and punching technique that clean has to be trained. The stacking of the other guys seems to be common sense, but it was very well executed.
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My fists bleed death. -Akuma |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Drew wrote: |
I may have posted this link on this site before, but I think you would be hard pressed to overstate the value of this video for multiple aggressor situations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHG2Us4_Js4
He stacks them up, as most of you here think should be done, does his best to knock the one in front of him out, and looks cool doing it, always a plus. I think I counted five attackers in that one as well. I wonder if this guy trained for this situation or just trained in boxing? I assume he is a boxer, maybe he just came out of the womb swinging naturally
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I've seen this before, I think he was a semi-pro boxer or something along those lines.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I've seen that as well. Trying to stack up the bad guys is the way I try to go in class. The problem I have is that since the contact is very severe, no one is afraid of trying to run through and around your techniques, making it all fall apart.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Montana
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
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I've fought (for real) 3 people at the same time. DEFINITELY stacking is the best way.
That video is an excellent example of a man with skills VS other men without skills (apparently). He kept moving, which is key. Standing in one spot gives your opponents time to manuever around you and attack from behind, which can be lethal!
Another thing is to use your environment environment to your advantage. If you hare between parked cars that limits the attack angles an opponent can come at you. Another thing are telephone poles or such. Put them between you and an opponent if possible.
Taking an opponent to the ground and tryibng to get a submission in a multiple attacker scenerio is STUPID! Shile you're tied up with obne opponent makibng him say "Uncle", the others will kick your brains in.
Stay on your feet and keep moving, as the video showed. Deal hard, solid and disabling blows to any available target and attempt to put them down as quickly as possible.
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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them.
Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries. |
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Groinstrike
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 923
Location: Richland County
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do, BJJ M
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Good points made by Montana, I am also in favor turning an attacker into a human sheild. Trying to work behind the intitial attacker, execute a sheet throw or some other control and drag him around, keeping him between you and your attackers while threatening great harm upon him, may buy you your chance to escape. |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Montana wrote: |
I've fought (for real) 3 people at the same time. DEFINITELY stacking is the best way.
That video is an excellent example of a man with skills VS other men without skills (apparently). He kept moving, which is key. Standing in one spot gives your opponents time to manuever around you and attack from behind, which can be lethal!
Another thing is to use your environment environment to your advantage. If you hare between parked cars that limits the attack angles an opponent can come at you. Another thing are telephone poles or such. Put them between you and an opponent if possible.
Taking an opponent to the ground and tryibng to get a submission in a multiple attacker scenerio is STUPID! Shile you're tied up with obne opponent makibng him say "Uncle", the others will kick your brains in.
Stay on your feet and keep moving, as the video showed. Deal hard, solid and disabling blows to any available target and attempt to put them down as quickly as possible. |
I agree. I do want to point out; however, that a lot of people (I'm not saying you, just generalizing) fail to realize that you can end up on the ground regardless of how little you want to. For this reason, cross training in a grappling art (at a bare minimum) is a mandatory concern for an artist concerned with self defense (as is escalation to modern weapons usage, ect.).
Not only will this give you a better chance of actually getting back to your feet while sustaining a little damage as possible while down, but it will give you attacks from the tie up where striking is minimally effective. Let's not forget that tapping or getting someone to say "uncle" is in place of actually breaking stuff up and putting people to sleep. Much in the same way that standing joint manipulation in more traditional arts is often misunderstood in this manner, people often forget that any art designed to break up joint has value beyond the "tap".
I'm not saying that you're overlooking these things, just that they often are when people make the above argument.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you, tallgeese. You may not want to go to the ground, but that doesn't mean you won't end up there. Knowing how to move and get back up is important. Snapping a bone while on the ground really quick would be a good way to drop one of the attackers out of the mix.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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on the post.
