3rd kyu, don't know if I can protect myself.

conrad665 · Orange Belt

Hi, I do Shotokan karate. I wonder when I will be able to defend myself or whether I could do it now. How can I know it without involving in a fight? Starting one asap?

Or to which degree should I reach to be fully confident? Thanks in advance.

BDPulver · Green Belt

Let me ask this (and i dont want to seem like I am coming off too harsh) but is there a reason to train?? We train to avoid confrontation. If you are looking for a fight to test your skills then you are no better then the person/s on reason why we take up the martial arts.

I took up MA to protect myself against a bully but after a while it became a passion. I'm at the point where my instinct will take over for survival then to test my skills out. If I did that I would be NO better then the bully that use to accost me.

Alot of us take MA for different reasons, some for self defense, others for better understanding of fighting and still others for that path of enlightment (in general terms).

If you want to test your skills out I would suggest looking for a full contact tournament but there you have rules to worry bout but its as close as your gonna get.

When I teach I always tell my students to avoid fighting at all cost cause there is only a loser on both sides. I'll get asked why to study and its simple really, you will have tools in that one situation, that one instance where you just might need it.

Lupin1 · Black Belt

I think he was joking about starting a fight.

He's saying he's worried that even though he's a brown belt, if someone were to attack him tomorrow he wouldn't be able to defend himself.

I agree that some sort of sparring would be the best way to test it, even though it's not entirely real because in a real fight no one's going follow the rules.

GeoGiant · Brown Belt

I doubt that anyone on this forum can answer those questions. We don't know where or how you train. The questions is, have you been hit hard? I suggest you put on the pads and try semi to full contact sparring. If I can quote Mike Tyson..."everyone has a plan until they're punched in the mouth". You could have obtained a great deal knowledge about kicking, punching, etc., but if you drop your head or hands when you've been punched really hard in the face that knowledge doesn't help.

GeoGiant · Brown Belt

After more thought...

If you can take a punch and recover your wits quickly and if you have your wind up you should be able to stand your ground against most people that don't train.

tallgeese · Black Belt

Good question.

As pointed out, there are too many variables to know for sure: your school's tactics, your personal mindset, your attackers attributes, environmental concerns, ect.

That said, without being there you just don't know. Unless you're in a profession where that's going to happen legally, hope you don't have to find out.

Some good general advice has been put forth. I'd add that now is time to start doing scenario based training. Get a full armored attacker, the more mobile the better (I like Blauer gear) and have him try you.

Here's the thing, it can't be sparring. His mindset has to be an actual assault. Pull up some video of actual, real world attack and model his behavior after those. Check out you tube, old episodes of Cops, ect. for ideas. Start slow and work up. Now add weapons, both for he and you. Hit him with whatever is furnishing your school occasionally.

Back when I had a rental property and things that didn't cost much to get, we drilled this in my actual home vs. a home invasion. It's instructive. Do the same thing out of a car if you can. Again, best to set this up BEHIND the school and out of sight.

Again, will it be "real", of course not. But it will give you a better feel for your capabilities and let you size up where your mindset is. This kind of "stress inoculation" helps build your mindset in preparation for conflict. I recommend Grossman's "On Combat" for more in this area.

Lastly, I agree with above, train with some contact. Not every time, not all the time, but some time if your goal is self defense. It's imperative that you understand what it feels like to work through aggression to win a fight on the street.
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sensei8 · KF Sensei

joesteph · Black Belt

It's more in your mind than in your training. Much training is art, not self-defense, but there are aspects of training, the simple punch and kick, that are what you really need.

Don't punch a heavy bag, punch a BOB with intent to break the nose. Do at least light-to-moderate contact when sparring. Take a second martial art that will give you perspective, even if it means cutting into your present training. I did when I added to non-contact Soo Bahk Do to do (self-defense oriented) Vee Arnis Jiu Jitsu for about six weeks, Jeet Kune Do for over two months, and attended a sparring school (Universal Warrior) for two months. The last school taught me the most, and I left only b/c of health reasons.

I'm again studying non-contact Soo Bahk Do, but I do it as a connection with my children (I want them to study non-contact now that they're so young, age 9) and something to do--an activity.

I continue to attack the BOB I have at home with techniques I wouldn't use in the dojang, or would have to use with restraint. The more humanlike the target, the more likely you are to fight, as brought out in On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.

When you walk down the street, or attend a carnival, or even just sit in a McDonald's, see who is near you and ask yourself how you would take him. You're not attacking, but you are readying psychologically. You only have to need to be able to use this "plan" once to know it was worth all the times you didn't do a thing but think.

Do you know how to establish a defensive perimeter by a "fence"? If not, check into it.

Keep your posture straight, and whenever your eyes meet another man's, and you feel you're looking at one another too long, don't ever break eye contact by looking down. Look to the side, even to the side and back again. Horizontal remains strong. Looking down is submissive.

I believe it's the old story of "If you think you can or you think you can't, you're right."
_________________
~ Joe
Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu

KumitePanda · Yellow Belt

conrad665 · Orange Belt

Firstly, thank you very much for the answers.

[quote]Let me ask this (and i dont want to seem like I am coming off too harsh) but is there a reason to train?? We train to avoid confrontation. If you are looking for a fight to test your skills then you are no better then the person/s on reason why we take up the martial arts.

I took up MA to protect myself against a bully but after a while it became a passion. I'm at the point where my instinct will take over for survival then to test my skills out. If I did that I would be NO better then the bully that use to accost me.

Alot of us take MA for different reasons, some for self defense, others for better understanding of fighting and still others for that path of enlightment (in general terms).

If you want to test your skills out I would suggest looking for a full contact tournament but there you have rules to worry bout but its as close as your gonna get.

When I teach I always tell my students to avoid fighting at all cost cause there is only a loser on both sides. I'll get asked why to study and its simple really, you will have tools in that one situation, that one instance where you just might need it.[/quote]

Sorry if I sounded like a person whose only aim is to beat up people. Maybe that could be the reason why I started, but that's not my aim. As far as I know, there are more sd oriented martial arts, but I prefer karate. And I love kata better than kumite. But I thought I can say I really started to learn something if I can use what I've been practising so far in a difficult situation. Once sensei told us his friends used to go the dangerous areas of their neighbourhood to test their skills by starting fights. I would not do that, so maybe I'll never know.

[quote]Once you no longer ask these type of questions!!

It's normal, at the beginning of ones MA journey to ask these type of questions. Can I? Should I? Will I? Would I? Could I? After some time, the questions will still arrive but the context of the questions will change.

Kumite until the wheels fall off and then some, but, there are NO absolutes when it comes to the martial arts.

[/quote]

Thanks,sensei8, I hope it'll be so

[quote]It's more in your mind than in your training. Much training is art, not self-defense, but there are aspects of training, the simple punch and kick, that are what you really need.

Don't punch a heavy bag, punch a BOB with intent to break the nose. Do at least light-to-moderate contact when sparring. Take a second martial art that will give you perspective, even if it means cutting into your present training. I did when I added to non-contact Soo Bahk Do to do (self-defense oriented) Vee Arnis Jiu Jitsu for about six weeks, Jeet Kune Do for over two months, and attended a sparring school (Universal Warrior) for two months. The last school taught me the most, and I left only b/c of health reasons.

I'm again studying non-contact Soo Bahk Do, but I do it as a connection with my children (I want them to study non-contact now that they're so young, age 9) and something to do--an activity.

I continue to attack the BOB I have at home with techniques I wouldn't use in the dojang, or would have to use with restraint. The more humanlike the target, the more likely you are to fight, as brought out in On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.

When you walk down the street, or attend a carnival, or even just sit in a McDonald's, see who is near you and ask yourself how you would take him. You're not attacking, but you are readying psychologically. You only have to need to be able to use this "plan" once to know it was worth all the times you didn't do a thing but think.

Do you know how to establish a defensive perimeter by a "fence"? If not, check into it.

Keep your posture straight, and whenever your eyes meet another man's, and you feel you're looking at one another too long, don't ever break eye contact by looking down. Look to the side, even to the side and back again. Horizontal remains strong. Looking down is submissive.

I believe it's the old story of "If you think you can or you think you can't, you're right."[/quote]

Thanks for the advices, joesteph, I'm already thinking about starting another martial art. Maybe this could help me understand the philosophy of martial arts better.

[quote]so i'm getting here is that you're not sure if you could defend yourself if you were attacked am i right? if i'm right, easy a kazami to the person's jaw and run like bloody mary!!! i have only had to do this once in my life since starting karate and i to practice shotokan. i was on a train and a guy that i knew who was a known rapist was following me everywhere and right infront of the train security guard touched me so i broke his jaw and ran! i had already told the security guy the situation and he never stopped me![/quote]

I'm happy nothing bad happened to you. My instructors once said they never had to use karate in normal life. But I would be happy if I had a chance, as long as it is not too dangerous:)

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