Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Comparative Styles and Cross Training
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

che-lu student
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Jun 2018
Posts: 10


PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
che-lu student wrote:
yellowbeltchic wrote:
There are two Mason. There is the son (the one you guys are talking about ) and then there is his dad (the one I am talking about). Confusing ain't it? (whoever found the website, cool and thank you)


Someone asked about the backgrounds and other things. Grandmaster Mason studied in Korea, Japan, and China (Kung-fu, TKD, and other system which has escaped my brain). He used different formats, movements, and styles to create Che-lu. So Che-lu was created solely by Grandmaster Mason.

Here is the website for Che- lu maybe in can be more help than I am giving now. http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Game/5011/
[url][/url]


TKD - Goju - Ketsugen - And I believe some Shorin and Shotokan, but I cant recall for sure - I know there were seven arts and a good portion of his training was at an authentic TKD monastery in Japan - as the story goes, he was a military son and he helped defend another kid in a street fight who was part of a monastery and was thus invited (as one of very few Americans) to train in the the monastery. I have no idea if this story is true, but it is what I was taught. - It is a shame that not more is shared about this art - That Kata's are beautiful - the core value was (in this order) Respect - Discipline - Intensity - over and over this is what we were taught - [/url]


No disrespect but the story lines of the golden mantis, the dream of a tiger and dragon fighting and becoming one and the fact that he defended another kid who just happened to be a student in a TKD monastery in Japan and was invited as one of a handful of Americans has a movie just waiting to be made from it. Too reminiscent of Bloodsport, KungFu, etc.

I've never heard of the art and am very wary when it comes to Westerner's creating their own art. They typically are a hodge-podge of techniques without true understanding of how to make them mold together.

You mention Kata... What are the Kata? Do they have names we would recognize? Is there examples of them that can be watched (youtube, etc) What are the core principles and techniques of the art? Close techniques, long range techniques? What percentage split of punching/kicking? Etc., etc., etc.

The question has been asked several times and we have gotten little more than a history lesson on the founder, his dreams and the like.

What separates this art from others? How were the 7 arts put together and what are the 7 arts that you mentioned. How long did the founder study each of these arts? What grade (rank) did he attain in these arts?

No disrespect but if you're going to introduce an art you should at minimum describe the art other than the history and Dojo Kun.

How is it that a 25 year old holds a Judan? Get the duct tape because my head just exploded.

Your art might be valid in terms of fighting but I can't buy into a 25 year old Judan.


This is a home grown art..it is very unlikely that you will recognize any Kata's, even if you knew the names... Why are you so focused on tradition... Lack of vision and open mindedness is why so many karate black belts find them self on the wrong end of a street fight....I am responding to this post only because someone asked to learn more about Che-lu....if you find the story and history hokey, than get beyond that and visit a dojo and see the actual art in motion..you can find fault in every art...if martial arts did not evolve, it would become obsolete.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

che-lu student
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Jun 2018
Posts: 10


PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

che-lu student wrote:
MatsuShinshii wrote:
che-lu student wrote:
yellowbeltchic wrote:
There are two Mason. There is the son (the one you guys are talking about ) and then there is his dad (the one I am talking about). Confusing ain't it? (whoever found the website, cool and thank you)


Someone asked about the backgrounds and other things. Grandmaster Mason studied in Korea, Japan, and China (Kung-fu, TKD, and other system which has escaped my brain). He used different formats, movements, and styles to create Che-lu. So Che-lu was created solely by Grandmaster Mason.

Here is the website for Che- lu maybe in can be more help than I am giving now. http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Game/5011/
[url][/url]


TKD - Goju - Ketsugen - And I believe some Shorin and Shotokan, but I cant recall for sure - I know there were seven arts and a good portion of his training was at an authentic TKD monastery in Japan - as the story goes, he was a military son and he helped defend another kid in a street fight who was part of a monastery and was thus invited (as one of very few Americans) to train in the the monastery. I have no idea if this story is true, but it is what I was taught. - It is a shame that not more is shared about this art - That Kata's are beautiful - the core value was (in this order) Respect - Discipline - Intensity - over and over this is what we were taught - [/url]


No disrespect but the story lines of the golden mantis, the dream of a tiger and dragon fighting and becoming one and the fact that he defended another kid who just happened to be a student in a TKD monastery in Japan and was invited as one of a handful of Americans has a movie just waiting to be made from it. Too reminiscent of Bloodsport, KungFu, etc.

I've never heard of the art and am very wary when it comes to Westerner's creating their own art. They typically are a hodge-podge of techniques without true understanding of how to make them mold together.

You mention Kata... What are the Kata? Do they have names we would recognize? Is there examples of them that can be watched (youtube, etc) What are the core principles and techniques of the art? Close techniques, long range techniques? What percentage split of punching/kicking? Etc., etc., etc.

The question has been asked several times and we have gotten little more than a history lesson on the founder, his dreams and the like.

What separates this art from others? How were the 7 arts put together and what are the 7 arts that you mentioned. How long did the founder study each of these arts? What grade (rank) did he attain in these arts?

No disrespect but if you're going to introduce an art you should at minimum describe the art other than the history and Dojo Kun.

How is it that a 25 year old holds a Judan? Get the duct tape because my head just exploded.

Your art might be valid in terms of fighting but I can't buy into a 25 year old Judan.


This is a home grown art..it is very unlikely that you will recognize any Kata's, even if you knew the names... Why are you so focused on tradition... Lack of vision and open mindedness is why so many karate black belts find them self on the wrong end of a street fight....I am responding to this post only because someone asked to learn more about Che-lu....if you find the story and history hokey, than get beyond that and visit a dojo and see the actual art in motion..you can find fault in every art...if martial arts did not evolve, it would become obsolete.


Lets be clear - I am not introducing or advocating anything - I am simply providing answers to the question asked, based on the information I have - I do though find it disappointing that the martial arts community seems to have such closed minded tunnel vision when it comes to accepting a new form that is not 1000 years old. Every art was created out of necessity and has it's strengths and limitations. Lets not forget - this art was first introduced in 1975 at the monadnock regional championships, where master mason took first place. In my opinion the legitimacy of a fighting style is the result of its effectiveness against an opponent....otherwise your just dancing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

che-lu student wrote:
che-lu student wrote:
MatsuShinshii wrote:
che-lu student wrote:
yellowbeltchic wrote:
There are two Mason. There is the son (the one you guys are talking about ) and then there is his dad (the one I am talking about). Confusing ain't it? (whoever found the website, cool and thank you)


Someone asked about the backgrounds and other things. Grandmaster Mason studied in Korea, Japan, and China (Kung-fu, TKD, and other system which has escaped my brain). He used different formats, movements, and styles to create Che-lu. So Che-lu was created solely by Grandmaster Mason.

Here is the website for Che- lu maybe in can be more help than I am giving now. http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Game/5011/
[url][/url]


TKD - Goju - Ketsugen - And I believe some Shorin and Shotokan, but I cant recall for sure - I know there were seven arts and a good portion of his training was at an authentic TKD monastery in Japan - as the story goes, he was a military son and he helped defend another kid in a street fight who was part of a monastery and was thus invited (as one of very few Americans) to train in the the monastery. I have no idea if this story is true, but it is what I was taught. - It is a shame that not more is shared about this art - That Kata's are beautiful - the core value was (in this order) Respect - Discipline - Intensity - over and over this is what we were taught - [/url]


No disrespect but the story lines of the golden mantis, the dream of a tiger and dragon fighting and becoming one and the fact that he defended another kid who just happened to be a student in a TKD monastery in Japan and was invited as one of a handful of Americans has a movie just waiting to be made from it. Too reminiscent of Bloodsport, KungFu, etc.

I've never heard of the art and am very wary when it comes to Westerner's creating their own art. They typically are a hodge-podge of techniques without true understanding of how to make them mold together.

You mention Kata... What are the Kata? Do they have names we would recognize? Is there examples of them that can be watched (youtube, etc) What are the core principles and techniques of the art? Close techniques, long range techniques? What percentage split of punching/kicking? Etc., etc., etc.

The question has been asked several times and we have gotten little more than a history lesson on the founder, his dreams and the like.

What separates this art from others? How were the 7 arts put together and what are the 7 arts that you mentioned. How long did the founder study each of these arts? What grade (rank) did he attain in these arts?

No disrespect but if you're going to introduce an art you should at minimum describe the art other than the history and Dojo Kun.

How is it that a 25 year old holds a Judan? Get the duct tape because my head just exploded.

Your art might be valid in terms of fighting but I can't buy into a 25 year old Judan.


This is a home grown art..it is very unlikely that you will recognize any Kata's, even if you knew the names... Why are you so focused on tradition... Lack of vision and open mindedness is why so many karate black belts find them self on the wrong end of a street fight....I am responding to this post only because someone asked to learn more about Che-lu....if you find the story and history hokey, than get beyond that and visit a dojo and see the actual art in motion..you can find fault in every art...if martial arts did not evolve, it would become obsolete.


Lets be clear - I am not introducing or advocating anything - I am simply providing answers to the question asked, based on the information I have - I do though find it disappointing that the martial arts community seems to have such closed minded tunnel vision when it comes to accepting a new form that is not 1000 years old. Every art was created out of necessity and has it's strengths and limitations. Lets not forget - this art was first introduced in 1975 at the monadnock regional championships, where master mason took first place. In my opinion the legitimacy of a fighting style is the result of its effectiveness against an opponent....otherwise your just dancing.


There is being cynical (narrow minded) and there's skeptical, meaning to be unconvinced based on relevant contradictory experience or knowledge.

The style may be a perfectly good one. But it would be hard to take it seriously with an impossible back story and claims of a 25 year old 10th dan.

Some of accept that the fairy tales and implausible ranks are just marketing, and don't necessarily say anything about the style itself. To that end, I'd be interested to some videos of it in use if you can recommend any on YouTube?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

che-lu student
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Jun 2018
Posts: 10


PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
che-lu student wrote:
yellowbeltchic wrote:
There are two Mason. There is the son (the one you guys are talking about ) and then there is his dad (the one I am talking about). Confusing ain't it? (whoever found the website, cool and thank you)


Someone asked about the backgrounds and other things. Grandmaster Mason studied in Korea, Japan, and China (Kung-fu, TKD, and other system which has escaped my brain). He used different formats, movements, and styles to create Che-lu. So Che-lu was created solely by Grandmaster Mason.

Here is the website for Che- lu maybe in can be more help than I am giving now. http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Game/5011/
[url][/url]


TKD - Goju - Ketsugen - And I believe some Shorin and Shotokan, but I cant recall for sure - I know there were seven arts and a good portion of his training was at an authentic TKD monastery in Japan - as the story goes, he was a military son and he helped defend another kid in a street fight who was part of a monastery and was thus invited (as one of very few Americans) to train in the the monastery. I have no idea if this story is true, but it is what I was taught. - It is a shame that not more is shared about this art - That Kata's are beautiful - the core value was (in this order) Respect - Discipline - Intensity - over and over this is what we were taught - [/url]


No disrespect but the story lines of the golden mantis, the dream of a tiger and dragon fighting and becoming one and the fact that he defended another kid who just happened to be a student in a TKD monastery in Japan and was invited as one of a handful of Americans has a movie just waiting to be made from it. Too reminiscent of Bloodsport, KungFu, etc.

I've never heard of the art and am very wary when it comes to Westerner's creating their own art. They typically are a hodge-podge of techniques without true understanding of how to make them mold together.

You mention Kata... What are the Kata? Do they have names we would recognize? Is there examples of them that can be watched (youtube, etc) What are the core principles and techniques of the art? Close techniques, long range techniques? What percentage split of punching/kicking? Etc., etc., etc.

The question has been asked several times and we have gotten little more than a history lesson on the founder, his dreams and the like.

What separates this art from others? How were the 7 arts put together and what are the 7 arts that you mentioned. How long did the founder study each of these arts? What grade (rank) did he attain in these arts?

No disrespect but if you're going to introduce an art you should at minimum describe the art other than the history and Dojo Kun.

How is it that a 25 year old holds a Judan? Get the duct tape because my head just exploded.

Your art might be valid in terms of fighting but I can't buy into a 25 year old Judan.



Ok, I hear what you are saying. I did not start this thread, I am just contributing to it so I apologize for overlooking the question at hand, I may have drifted down memory lane a bit too far. And I agree that this thread was poorly introduced, I agree the social medial and internet presence is in need of a tune up and I also understand your skepticism - So those are things I can do little to change -

So regarding the art itself - I am a decade or more removed from the system, and want to be careful not to speak out of school - some of the questions, I feel should be answered by a current ranking member.

When I trained, Che-Lu - The kata (for the most part) was comprised of a blend of flowing and turning techniques, deep steps (training your body for grapples and throws) most of which was in a low break stance (Horse stance), and hard strikes, both hands and feet.

Most blocking was done with broken wrists.

One of the things I remember that differentiated Che-Lu from most other Karate Styles is that we chambered our punches very high on our chest instead of on the belt or hip(Really feels great, spring loaded).

I wish there were YouTube videos of the Kata, but sadly there are not.

You mentioned close and long range techniques - I remember there being blend of both.

As far as the TKD - that was just a mistake on my end mixing up Japan and Korea, it's been so long

I don't really want to get into the fighting style or philosophies, I feel that is something a current ranking member should share, But as one of the posters here stated, our Dojo attended many tournaments and was very present in the local competitions and also participated in some of the national tournaments Like AAU.

I apologize if you still find this too vague, but I have been removed from this style for over a decade and a half, and as a 43 (almost) year old art, there may be evolution that I am unaware of and want to be respectful to the current ranking members.

If you have any other questions, I would be happy to answer if I can.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

che-lu student
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Jun 2018
Posts: 10


PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I reached out to senior rank in Che-Lu and I am sad to say that after O'Sensei passed, Dojos began to close and currently there are no operating dojos. I wish you all the best in your studies and martial arts journey. I will no longer be returning to this thread as I cant imagine anything that gets posted here will make me feel happy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2131


PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Che-lu could stand for cynics as "Cheesy Lunatic" but have noticed that if a martial art system is a working viable one it can stand the test of time and all cynics.

As Che-lu is about helping others with martial arts that is it's strength and its weakness is the belt ranking system devised for it, as having a 10th dan, being the son of O-sensei, as Brandon Lee could have titled himself the same also in JKD, as would be pointless.

Seems to me that Che-lu was created to fill a need for a time in a specific place in time and now there are other alternatives to forfil those needs.

Many MA systems have come and gone those that have stuck are here to stay only because they fit the needs of those practicing them.

Such as Aikido is to promote harmony or peace perhaps Che-lu was another pacifist philosophical type of martial art contributor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Comparative Styles and Cross Training All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >