Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> General Martial Arts Discussion
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

Martial_Artist
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 935
Location: Western USA.
Styles: The Pure Art

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually it applies to anyone. You see, the human body is bound by laws that govern the mechanisms of its function. In general, physical defects or abnormalities aside, all bodies are equal. Skill, in relation to the "human-ness" of your opponent, is irrelevant.

If I fight an opponent of greater skill I understand that his skill comes from being better able to manipulate his body. If I fight a lesser skilled opponent I understand that he does not have the ability to manipulate his body as well as I.

The purpose of the article was in relation to style. As a principle of fighting, style, that is system, is a component that is meaningless to the person who understands that regardless of the style of my opponent he only has two arms and two legs and as long as I have trained my body to perform as I require it, then the style of my opponent means nothing to me. His punches, regardless of the system of their origin, are still governend by the laws that govern the mechanics of the human body. It is still a hand attached to an arm, attached to a torso. He may call it by a hundred different names, he may throw it vertical, horizontal, or in any number of ways, but--to me--it is nothing more than his hand. This is the principle of fighting that many martial artists do not grasp.

Too often a martial artist is concerned with what technique from his arsenal will he apply to the technique being administered by his opponent. This system is simply just ineffective. No single system can cover every possible attack an opponent might possibly deliver. A pure martial artist understands the limitation of system and technique and learns to utilize what he has been taught and the myriad of things he may learn to free his mind from system and grasp pure combative expression.

Therefore, he views his opponent not as a stylist or a "fighter from a particular art", but as a human opponent whose movements are limited to the limits of the human body.

Many martial artists spend their entire lives learning one art and are surprised when a stylist of another art defeats them. It is because they have grasped the simply concept of human movement.

I have been traveling the path for over 25 years. I learn new things every day. However I have reached the point where the style of my opponent is completely meaningless to me. Whether he be a grappler, a striker, a combination of a hundred different styles, it is all the same to me.

That is the principle of fighting described in the short article I wrote. While there are many different principles I chose to specifically write on that one.

Skill, style, technique, application, strength, speed, and other principles were not discussed. In fact, discussing every single principle of fighting would take a long time, and compile a work much more vast than a simple article.

MA.

p.s.
The training habits of other cultures do not defy the boundaries of the human body. They may, perhaps, more fully refine the capabilities, but they are still human. If you, as a martial artist, do not train to the fullest potential, then you cannot expect your body to perform at the same level as a martial artist who trains at a higher level. It is the responsibility of the martial artist to decide at what level he fights.

I most certainly agree that perfect practice makes perfect. Anything else, is as you say, just practice...


_________________
"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Killer Miller
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 732
Location: California
Styles: JKA Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what you are saying. But I feel that it is a meaningless point. You speak of the hands, feet, torso, etc. in terms of the outside movement being the same regardless of the style. You are kidding youself if you truly believe this. Learning/perfecting the outside movements of fighting is a small part of the art of fighting. There is far more to fighting that just an arm going out, foot going out, torso rotation, etc. There is breathing timing, drawing your opponent to you or away from you, using their energy to your advanting, or just perfecting timing actions in general. And not to mention perfection of inside body/muscle contraction/relaxation techniques. These are all of the inside feeling concepts that many times out way the outside movements. I don't care how equal we are in terms of build, physical make up, if I understand breathing/body time much better than you, but equally skilled on the extorior than you, I'm still going to kick your tail - no threat intended of course, just for discussion sake.

So I respect your oppinion, but yet I totally disagree with your concept - or perhaps I still just don't see your relevancy(?).

- Killer Miller -
_________________
Mizu No Kokoro
Shodan - Nishiyama Sensei
Table Tennis: http://www.jmblades.com/
Auto Weblog: http://appliedauto.mypunbb.com/
Auto Forum: http://appauto.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Martial_Artist
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 935
Location: Western USA.
Styles: The Pure Art

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you have missed the point: it is merely a principle of fighting, not the whole thereof. But that is fine and is not worthy of argument.

All that is necessary for comprehension has been divulged. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is much appreciated.

All of what I spoke of was not solely relative to the external. But, one must look beyond the metaphor.

I could, and have, written books about fighting. What I have written about this simple principle is short, and perhaps, therein lies the difficulty for comprehension. However, I also do not feel it necessary to expound more than I have. I have never much liked oversimplification in explanation. I prefer to let the reader infer the deeper meanings through contextual understanding.

Again, thanks for sharing your opinion.

MA
_________________
"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Killer Miller
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 732
Location: California
Styles: JKA Shotokan

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody's trying to argue here, and no I haven't missed the point. Please don't try to talk down to me, I've been trained by some of the best instructors in the world in the past. I'm not trying to put down your article and much of what you wrote is true. I just feel that there's a false hope written in your principle and I've seen too many MAs get seriously hurt by believing in this concept. I also feel this merrits civil discussion for clarity to others since you have written your article.

Many MAs go into mathes/fights way over their head because they believe this principle. It's true that a man/woman is just a man, and that the're only a physical object in an altercation. This is good if you are fairly equal in build, tone, experience, mind state, and expertise. However, if this is not the case, serious injury is a result in the fight... It is much easier to be able to accurately determine the situation, before it gets serious, and avoid it all together. This is the true test of manhood or womenhood.

So if I have a little heartburn with your article, it's because I've seen this principle cause too much harm in the past. It's a concern that I have quite a bit of passion over in MA teachings. To teach one to fight, they must learn how to "kill" in their training principles. That way, they will appreciate the meaning of "life" when they are in an altercation and truely say to themselves "do I really want to kill this person" or "does this situation really call for serious injury to the other person?" Than answer is that no altercation truly warrants injury to the other party, if it can be avoided. However, if the altercation or situation is withouth question life threating to you or others, then you have to be able and prepared to "kill" in an instant and without thought. This is when you are only a man, flesh and blood, etc... and must do what you have to do. But then again, you may be the one that gets killed too.

So my reply is not to put down your article or principle - although I think that's the way you might percieve my replies. However, I do want my views to be understood that this principle could also cost a person/MA harm or their life if they see too deeply into this principle. I've seen it happen too many times and people do get seriously hurt when this principle is misunderstood or implemented.

Your's truly and in good friendly spirit,

- Killer Miller -
_________________
Mizu No Kokoro
Shodan - Nishiyama Sensei
Table Tennis: http://www.jmblades.com/
Auto Weblog: http://appliedauto.mypunbb.com/
Auto Forum: http://appauto.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Martial_Artist
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 935
Location: Western USA.
Styles: The Pure Art

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So be it then. Thanks for your input.
_________________
"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

cross
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article Martial_Artist, Keep up the good work
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Ben
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 133
Location: Mansfield, Notts, UK.
Styles: Hap Ki Do

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good article, very good. it brings the mental side of MA into the picture greatly... being calm, knowing that the person in-front is simply like anyone else. they are still restricted by the same things you are - but maybe one of you have pushed those restrictions a little more. despite all this, its still a fist or a kick, and no matter how well executed, you should be able to deal with it.

If you have anything else already written, i know i wouldnt mind reading some
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Martial_Artist
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 935
Location: Western USA.
Styles: The Pure Art

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.
Actually, I've written a couple books on the martial arts, but have no plans for trying to get them published. They were for my students use when I used to teach. Now, they are for my sons. If asked to write again by the admin, I would, of course, be more than happy to supply.

MA.
_________________
"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

loveola
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 2


PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

martal arts should be for self confidence even when in tough scenes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Guy_Mendiola
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 269
Location: Waimanalo, Hawaii
Styles: Boxing and Tae Kwon Do.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kool article.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> General Martial Arts Discussion All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - DMCA - Staff - User Guidelines >