Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Karate
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

FeralFrettchen
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 07 Apr 2022
Posts: 5
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 10:29 am    Post subject: A quick question regarding Naihanchi Shodan Reply with quote

Hi everyone! I am currently following along with Nagamine’s Essence of Okinawan Karate-do and am a little confused regarding the Morote-zuki in Naihanchi Shodan. When performing the augmented side punch, am I supposed to keep the torso straight or twist it to the side? It’s a little hard for me to tell from the pictures. Thanks for any help you guys can give!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15773
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting question, which I'm quite sure will have varying answers. So, I'll just answer with what I teach based off what I've been taught...

Torso remains straight. The appearance of twisting of the torso is due to the engaging/engaged/disengaging hips.



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-robert-mitcham-fight-cancer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1920
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlike Bob's answer, I'm the opposite. I twist my torso and then snap back to straight.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29324
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Interesting question, which I'm quite sure will have varying answers. So, I'll just answer with what I teach based off what I've been taught...

Torso remains straight. The appearance of twisting of the torso is due to the engaging/engaged/disengaging hips.




This is how I've done it, and in TKD we have a form, Poe Eun, that has the similar technique, and I do it this way here as well.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

FeralFrettchen
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 07 Apr 2022
Posts: 5
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the helpful answers, friends. Much appreciated!

sensei8 wrote:
Interesting question, which I'm quite sure will have varying answers. So, I'll just answer with what I teach based off what I've been taught...

Torso remains straight. The appearance of twisting of the torso is due to the engaging/engaged/disengaging hips.




I did indeed get varying answers! It seems like both ways are acceptable and count as proper form, which I find very interesting as well. I suppose it all comes down to style and how one was originally taught? I'm going to try both ways and see which one works best for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2628
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd have to ask a Matsubayashi-Ryu practitioner to get the stylistically-correct answer, but I can tell you that in the Kobayashi branch of Shorin-Ryu, the torso remains straight. That said, in KishimotoDi, you twist all the way to the side at the waist and then reset, and I have blended that into my Shorin-Ryu, at least some of the time. Kata don't have to be done the same way every time you practice, after all
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker, Adrian Rivera
Karate Obsession | Arizona Practical Karate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

scohen0300
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 210
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Tang Soo Do

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I studied Matsubayashi Ryu for 14 years! The philosophy I was always taught was to be like a whip. “The tip of the branches instead of the trunk of the tree.” Matsubayashi practitioners love the “snap.”

We would always fully extend each technique, even a little over extending (as if breaking a board, you wouldn’t stop at the point of contact, you’d go a little through), and end up in a relaxed position. I know the question is about the morote zuki in Naihanchi, but let me use an easier example first.

(I promise I’ll make my point after this paragraph)

With a regular chudan level punch in shizentai stance, there’s a slight cocking back of your right hip (if throwing a right punch) before the punch leaves the pocket. Arm stays relaxed the whole time (until the supposed impact), using the hips to throw it forward, fully extending, right hip now slightly forward, ahead of the left hip. At that point, you would simply “relax” into a normal position with the right arm forward. The right hip relaxes back to even out the hips, and there should be a very slight bend at the right elbow with the shoulders squared forward. I’m not sure if this is just common practice, but it’s how I was taught.

Using this same “method,” for lack of a better term, with morote, the arms would be thrown out with the hips. The arms would reach a point of fully extended (not sure how to explain the extension of the bent arm), with the shoulders/hips slightly turned in the direction of the technique. Everything would then relax back to a “normal” position. Hips and shoulders squared forward, fully extended arm will have an ever so slight bend at the elbow, and the other arm in its usual position (again, not sure how to explain that arm).

IN CONCLUSION… (lol)

Your torso would slightly twist to the side to help throw the technique (slightly) and relax back to straight. If I over-explained this, I do apologize. And please note, I’m not trying to say an over exaggerated extension of the arms/twisting of the torso. But it should be noticeable to the trained eye.

Correct me if I’m wrong. In terms of bunkai and practicality, I think it was Noah who said (a few years ago) that Matsubayashi doesn’t focus on performing techniques for self defense purposes. In my experience, that’s an accurate statement (depending on the school of course). It’s far more focused on the snap of its techniques and body mechanics of kata. We strictly practiced kihon up and down the floor, all of our kata depending on our rank, and the 7 Yakusoku kumite. My Sensei had a very impressive understanding of bunkai, but for whatever reason, he didn’t have us practice that very often unless he received enough requests from students. Those classes were always VERY intense.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
_________________

May the force be with you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29324
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a nice explanation, scohen! Thanks for sharing that Ted Talk!
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

P.A.L
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1261
Location: Texas
Styles: Shorin-ryu

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

search " understanding koshi" in youtube. some years ago sensei Otta invited two Okinawan karate masters for a seminar on koshi. sensei Ikehara and Tajima i think. one of them I guess Tajima showed the Naihanchi shodan. that is one of the best original naihanchi you can find out there. you can see how relax the upper body turns and resets.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Karate All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >