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Is he a fake or does he deserve the belt?
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Fake |
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67% |
[ 56 ] |
Real |
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32% |
[ 27 ] |
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| Total Votes : 83 |
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¶ARADOX
Yellow Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 52
Location: somewhere in England, I hate not living In Scotland any more
Styles: Shotokan Karate and some form of aikido/aikijutsu which incorporates strikes and weapons
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| YoungMan wrote: |
By definition, you are not a black belt if all you do is put some moves together and call it your own personal style. You may be skilled in your own right, the same way someone may be skilled in teaching themselves music or english. However, you are a black belt when a legitimate Instructor and/or organization deems you worthy, through accredited testing, of being a black belt. Until that happens, you may or may not be a skilled practitioner but you are not a black belt.
Otherwise, anyone and his brother could call themselves a black belt. |
Key word there "legitimate", If USCMAAI's post is correct it could be getting harder and harder to find so-called "Legitimate" instructors, I hate to suggest the word but...McDojo, a lot of people I meet who claim to be black belts say it took about two years to reach "black belt", Then I ask them to perform a basic movement they are entirely out of form, one guy even fell over when demonstrating an age-uke!!
_________________
I wish I wish I hadn't killed that fish |
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YoungMan
Blue Belt
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Somewhere in Michigan
Styles: Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwan, some Aikido
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: |
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And this is why organizations and governing bodies serve a purpose-so that some clown with no real credibility is giving his students black belts that really mean nothing. Or some guy isn't making up his own style and calling himself a black belt. This why high schools are accredited-so that when you graduate, your diploma is recognized everywhere.
The fact that you may have some skills does not mean you are a black belt. A black belt is a rank you earn from a credible Instructor and governing body. Otherwise anyone could have one. |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| YoungMan wrote: |
The fact that you may have some skills does not mean you are a black belt. A black belt is a rank you earn from a credible Instructor and governing body. Otherwise anyone could have one. |
But who governs the governing body and makes them certifiable?
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| YoungMan wrote: |
The fact that you may have some skills does not mean you are a black belt. A black belt is a rank you earn from a credible Instructor and governing body. Otherwise anyone could have one. |
But who governs the governing body and makes them certifiable? |
This is the big question. There are so many anymore, that it can come from all kinds of places.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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YoungMan
Blue Belt
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Somewhere in Michigan
Styles: Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwan, some Aikido
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Very true. Everwhere you look, some clown is setting up his own organization and governing body and issuing black belts through it. I've known at least one person who did this (I'm not affiliated with them BTW).
The Kukkiwon in Korea is a world recognized governing body, by virtue of the fact it is connected with the IOC and recognized by the government of South Korea. The ITF, maybe less so. Other organizations, you may just have deal with the fact that a black belt through them may not be recognized as much outside their sphere.
And I've seen plenty of people who claim very high rank, but never really say HOW they got that rank. I suspect they either gave it to themselves because many Americans take rank at face value, or got some 3rd tier organization looking for a quick buck to bestow it on them. A quick glance at the back pages of many MA magazines will confirm this. |
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Semaj
Yellow Belt
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 42
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| It might sound cheesey, but a Martial Artist is defined from inside. He developed a ligitimate (in the sense that it works) style and is a stronger Martial Artist. Black Belt is irrelevant. I don't think it matters. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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marie curie
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 1023
Location: PA, USA
Styles: Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan Karate, Kajukenbo, Kodokan Judo, Gracie Barra Jiu-Jitsu, Olympic Tae Kwon Doe
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Really, if you decide to call yourself a black belt, there isn't any law against it. The real issue is black belt in what art.
When someone from the TKD McDojang in my hometown said that they were a Blah Blah Ripley TKD black belt, I knew that they had put forth two years of study and a lot of money on a lot of tests.
When someone says that they are a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu back belt.... well I know that I have a lot I could learn from them.
It's like calling yourself "Doctor So and So" if you are a Ph.D. in something. It's not wrong as long as you are clear about what it is. My father has a PhD in Kinesiology- not too hard to get and nothing like a med dr, but it still calls for the title.
If I (or your friend) makes up a style- lets say.... Marie Curie Fu, and I walk around saying that I'm a black belt in Marie Curie Fu, then martial artists will probably take it with a grain of salt until I demonstrate what I (a black belt in MCF) can do. Then they will associate my skill-level -no matter how high or low- with a MCF black belt.
Just IMHO
_________________
You suck-train harder.......................Don't block with your face
A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
-Lao Tzu |
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YoungMan
Blue Belt
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Somewhere in Michigan
Styles: Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwan, some Aikido
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I think the way to do it is this:
1. Earn a black belt in a legitimate, recognized system under a legitimate instructor recognized by peers.
2. Earn a reputation by working to advance that art and begin to make a name for yourself.
3. Slowly begin to develop your own method of doing things. You will have your base, but you can take it from there. Obviously, all this will take years. But oak trees don't grow overnight. |
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3025
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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More Devil's Advocate here:
Helio Gracie never had any lessons in Jujitsu. Anyone think he or his family are fake black belts?
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"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenius." |
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on the post.
