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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
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| Prototype wrote: |
That's what buggs me. I am confident that if my instructor was younger, then he would have more advanced kicking lectures, instead of just front and side kicks. The assistant instructors lesson have a majority of the time spent on kicks. He also said it was much more training in kicking during the 80s and early 90s. Now we barely scratch the surface, just because the instructor stiffened. Why not just use his assistant instructor for more elaborate stuff? Now we're stuck on blocks and front kicks |
You could always break the golden rule, and ask if there could be more emphasis on kicking, or why it appears to be lacking.
Beware though, if he is old school, your question may be frowned upon.
If you do choose to have a word, I would recommend doing so tactfully and in private.
It may even be the frustrating thing of 'everything in due course', where stuff gets withheld until a certain grade. We have that to some extent in ours but really not that much, and certainly not in basics. Basics in our case meaning all the techniques including all kicks, punches and blocks etc done in isolation or very basic combos.
How long have you trained where you're at now? Do you have other options in your neighbourhood if you can't get what you're looking for from your current club? |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
That's what buggs me. I am confident that if my instructor was younger, then he would have more advanced kicking lectures, instead of just front and side kicks. The assistant instructors lesson have a majority of the time spent on kicks. He also said it was much more training in kicking during the 80s and early 90s. Now we barely scratch the surface, just because the instructor stiffened. Why not just use his assistant instructor for more elaborate stuff? Now we're stuck on blocks and front kicks |
You could always break the golden rule, and ask if there could be more emphasis on kicking, or why it appears to be lacking.
Beware though, if he is old school, your question may be frowned upon.
If you do choose to have a word, I would recommend doing so tactfully and in private.
It may even be the frustrating thing of 'everything in due course', where stuff gets withheld until a certain grade. We have that to some extent in ours but really not that much, and certainly not in basics. Basics in our case meaning all the techniques including all kicks, punches and blocks etc done in isolation or very basic combos.
How long have you trained where you're at now? Do you have other options in your neighbourhood if you can't get what you're looking for from your current club? |
I have trained for 4 years. "Complained" as a beginner that I expected more kicks in training (it was heavily advertised with kicks). Got him to add a few aerial kicking training sessions. Since that time though, back to basics - hand techniques and stances ad infinitum. We may even go over to mitts practise with a few minutes left and still do hand techniques! An entire class devoted to hands, only to do more of it.
I love the asisstant instructors lessons but they are few and far in between. There's more of modern flare to his classes, if you know what I mean. Actual kicking drills, kicking each other, kicking mitts, kicking in prearranged sparring. Tougher conditioning. Higher pace. You really catch a good sweat and get your legs working like in a proper TaeKwonDo class.
No other available ITF school. I won't start over as a white belt in KKW Taekwondo. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable training in Karate or TKD with 1% kicking? |
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| Prototype wrote: |
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. I won't start over as a white belt in KKW Taekwondo. |
That's your decision. But I and many others have started again from the beginning on switching styles, even when switching between very similar styles. It means you get fresh insights that you might have missed first time round. And would you rather be a black belt with no kicks, or a white belt with a massive head start on the hands and some awesome kicks after just a few months? |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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This is going to sound harsh, it that’s not my intent; I’m genuinely saying this in a good tone of voice so to speak...
You seem genuinely unhappy where you’re training. If that’s the case, leave. If it’s a waste of your time, leave. If you’re not getting what you signed up for, leave.
Life’s too short to get all frustrated about a hobby. I know people hate that word, but unless you’re getting paid to train and/or compete, paid to teach, or are using it as education for a future career; it’s a hobby IMO.
If the thought of being a white belt all over again has you cringing, you really should evaluate what exactly it is that you’re after here. Are you there to wear a belt and tell anyone who’ll listen that you’re X rank and/or will be Y rank soon? What’s the belt going to do for you that your skills aren’t doing? Are you going to wave it around at a potential attacker and scare them off with it? Do you really think they care? Royce Gracie has a great quote - “Your belt covers 2 inches of your (explicit - backside is forum friendly); you cover the rest.”
If you’re as unhappy as you seem to be, and this thread is now at 4 pages with no change anywhere in sight, the answer is to start looking elsewhere. Why does it have to be TKD? What about another style? Look at everything around you. Pick a good school, not a style. If you genuinely can’t find anything better, then stay put and change your expectations.
I know it sounds harsh. If we were actually talking instead of writing, it wouldn’t sound harsh at all. |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
This is going to sound harsh, it that’s not my intent; I’m genuinely saying this in a good tone of voice so to speak...
You seem genuinely unhappy where you’re training. If that’s the case, leave. If it’s a waste of your time, leave. If you’re not getting what you signed up for, leave.
Life’s too short to get all frustrated about a hobby. I know people hate that word, but unless you’re getting paid to train and/or compete, paid to teach, or are using it as education for a future career; it’s a hobby IMO.
If the thought of being a white belt all over again has you cringing, you really should evaluate what exactly it is that you’re after here. Are you there to wear a belt and tell anyone who’ll listen that you’re X rank and/or will be Y rank soon? What’s the belt going to do for you that your skills aren’t doing? Are you going to wave it around at a potential attacker and scare them off with it? Do you really think they care? Royce Gracie has a great quote - “Your belt covers 2 inches of your (explicit - backside is forum friendly); you cover the rest.”
If you’re as unhappy as you seem to be, and this thread is now at 4 pages with no change anywhere in sight, the answer is to start looking elsewhere. Why does it have to be TKD? What about another style? Look at everything around you. Pick a good school, not a style. If you genuinely can’t find anything better, then stay put and change your expectations.
I know it sounds harsh. If we were actually talking instead of writing, it wouldn’t sound harsh at all. |
Not harsh at all. I have worked up a certain ability with 4 years of dedicated training. To start over and learn new bodymechanics does not appeal to me. I have begun a journey and consistently stuck with it all the way to red belt. I am close to a first degree black belt. The techniques seem to fit me too.
The options I was concidering was joining a Kyokushin club, but there is none in my city, only a Kyokushin budokai one. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Prototype wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
This is going to sound harsh, it that’s not my intent; I’m genuinely saying this in a good tone of voice so to speak...
You seem genuinely unhappy where you’re training. If that’s the case, leave. If it’s a waste of your time, leave. If you’re not getting what you signed up for, leave.
Life’s too short to get all frustrated about a hobby. I know people hate that word, but unless you’re getting paid to train and/or compete, paid to teach, or are using it as education for a future career; it’s a hobby IMO.
If the thought of being a white belt all over again has you cringing, you really should evaluate what exactly it is that you’re after here. Are you there to wear a belt and tell anyone who’ll listen that you’re X rank and/or will be Y rank soon? What’s the belt going to do for you that your skills aren’t doing? Are you going to wave it around at a potential attacker and scare them off with it? Do you really think they care? Royce Gracie has a great quote - “Your belt covers 2 inches of your (explicit - backside is forum friendly); you cover the rest.”
If you’re as unhappy as you seem to be, and this thread is now at 4 pages with no change anywhere in sight, the answer is to start looking elsewhere. Why does it have to be TKD? What about another style? Look at everything around you. Pick a good school, not a style. If you genuinely can’t find anything better, then stay put and change your expectations.
I know it sounds harsh. If we were actually talking instead of writing, it wouldn’t sound harsh at all. |
Not harsh at all. I have worked up a certain ability with 4 years of dedicated training. To start over and learn new bodymechanics does not appeal to me. I have begun a journey and consistently stuck with it all the way to red belt. I am close to a first degree black belt. The techniques seem to fit me too.
The options I was concidering was joining a Kyokushin club, but there is none in my city, only a Kyokushin budokai one. |
You wouldn't really have to learn a whole new set of body mechanics.
The think about martial arts is that they tend to have been developed and refined by people who understand how the typical human body works. Gods forbid, if you ever have to be rushed to hospital for emergency treatment, rest assured that the experts there won't be frantically leafing through your notes to fund out what martial art you practiced so they can understand your anatomy.
Of course there are subtle differences between styles.my first style was wado. I went from that to a form of kung fu. Fighting stance was a little bit different, and there were more open hand techniques, and the roundhouse kick was toes back instead of instep. But many core principles were common between the two. More recently (last few years) tang soo do became my chosen style. Almost everything is the same as wado, but with subtle changes, and a bit more kung fu style open hand stuff. I did aikido and judo for a while. Guess what, I see every style I've ever studied in every other style I've ever studied.
The main difference I've found between the styles I've practiced is the emphasis. Tang soo do has pretty much all the elements of wado, but wado focuses a lot on 'boxing' (by that I mean more closer to Chinese boxing than western). Tang soo do emphasises kicking and joint manipulation and take downs. But I've yet to come across anything unique.
One thing that's surprised me in a good way with having a few different styles, is that each 'new' style I try doesn't teach something new, but rather instead, shows me something I already thought I knew, but from a different perspective. I only did aikido for a short while, but that short time added loads to my tang soo do understanding. I recently started tai chi (the meditation kind, not the combat kind). My Tang soo do experience is helping me pick it up quickly, while the tai chi is making a big difference to my tang soo do.
Sorry this is quite a long post. What I'm trying to highlight is that martial art is a rich tapestry to be viewed from many angles. Some of the most insightful martial artists I know have tried multiple styles. The fact that you've stuck with one for 4 years shows you have what it takes to commit to study. Maybe have a look about. Keep an open mind. You don't have to quit your current one (unless you want to). You might do one class somewhere else and decide not to go back. Or you might try it and love it, for a while, then get bored and try something else. All good. You might even switch completely. You won't lose anything. As long as you keep an open mind, you're pretty much guaranteed to broaden your skills and understanding. |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
This is going to sound harsh, it that’s not my intent; I’m genuinely saying this in a good tone of voice so to speak...
You seem genuinely unhappy where you’re training. If that’s the case, leave. If it’s a waste of your time, leave. If you’re not getting what you signed up for, leave.
Life’s too short to get all frustrated about a hobby. I know people hate that word, but unless you’re getting paid to train and/or compete, paid to teach, or are using it as education for a future career; it’s a hobby IMO.
If the thought of being a white belt all over again has you cringing, you really should evaluate what exactly it is that you’re after here. Are you there to wear a belt and tell anyone who’ll listen that you’re X rank and/or will be Y rank soon? What’s the belt going to do for you that your skills aren’t doing? Are you going to wave it around at a potential attacker and scare them off with it? Do you really think they care? Royce Gracie has a great quote - “Your belt covers 2 inches of your (explicit - backside is forum friendly); you cover the rest.”
If you’re as unhappy as you seem to be, and this thread is now at 4 pages with no change anywhere in sight, the answer is to start looking elsewhere. Why does it have to be TKD? What about another style? Look at everything around you. Pick a good school, not a style. If you genuinely can’t find anything better, then stay put and change your expectations.
I know it sounds harsh. If we were actually talking instead of writing, it wouldn’t sound harsh at all. |
Not harsh at all. I have worked up a certain ability with 4 years of dedicated training. To start over and learn new bodymechanics does not appeal to me. I have begun a journey and consistently stuck with it all the way to red belt. I am close to a first degree black belt. The techniques seem to fit me too.
The options I was concidering was joining a Kyokushin club, but there is none in my city, only a Kyokushin budokai one. |
You wouldn't really have to learn a whole new set of body mechanics.
The think about martial arts is that they tend to have been developed and refined by people who understand how the typical human body works. Gods forbid, if you ever have to be rushed to hospital for emergency treatment, rest assured that the experts there won't be frantically leafing through your notes to fund out what martial art you practiced so they can understand your anatomy.
Of course there are subtle differences between styles.my first style was wado. I went from that to a form of kung fu. Fighting stance was a little bit different, and there were more open hand techniques, and the roundhouse kick was toes back instead of instep. But many core principles were common between the two. More recently (last few years) tang soo do became my chosen style. Almost everything is the same as wado, but with subtle changes, and a bit more kung fu style open hand stuff. I did aikido and judo for a while. Guess what, I see every style I've ever studied in every other style I've ever studied.
The main difference I've found between the styles I've practiced is the emphasis. Tang soo do has pretty much all the elements of wado, but wado focuses a lot on 'boxing' (by that I mean more closer to Chinese boxing than western). Tang soo do emphasises kicking and joint manipulation and take downs. But I've yet to come across anything unique.
One thing that's surprised me in a good way with having a few different styles, is that each 'new' style I try doesn't teach something new, but rather instead, shows me something I already thought I knew, but from a different perspective. I only did aikido for a short while, but that short time added loads to my tang soo do understanding. I recently started tai chi (the meditation kind, not the combat kind). My Tang soo do experience is helping me pick it up quickly, while the tai chi is making a big difference to my tang soo do.
Sorry this is quite a long post. What I'm trying to highlight is that martial art is a rich tapestry to be viewed from many angles. Some of the most insightful martial artists I know have tried multiple styles. The fact that you've stuck with one for 4 years shows you have what it takes to commit to study. Maybe have a look about. Keep an open mind. You don't have to quit your current one (unless you want to). You might do one class somewhere else and decide not to go back. Or you might try it and love it, for a while, then get bored and try something else. All good. You might even switch completely. You won't lose anything. As long as you keep an open mind, you're pretty much guaranteed to broaden your skills and understanding. |
People seem to think every thread is inherently a problem solving request. It is not. I wanted to relay my experience of ITF TaeKwonDo and compare it to other peoples experience. That is whether my school is a statistical outlier (which I strongly suspect it is). You wrote yourself that Tang Soo Do emphasises kicks over punches, and Tang Soo Do is the parent art of ITF TaeKwonDo. |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
This is going to sound harsh, it that’s not my intent; I’m genuinely saying this in a good tone of voice so to speak...
You seem genuinely unhappy where you’re training. If that’s the case, leave. If it’s a waste of your time, leave. If you’re not getting what you signed up for, leave.
Life’s too short to get all frustrated about a hobby. I know people hate that word, but unless you’re getting paid to train and/or compete, paid to teach, or are using it as education for a future career; it’s a hobby IMO.
If the thought of being a white belt all over again has you cringing, you really should evaluate what exactly it is that you’re after here. Are you there to wear a belt and tell anyone who’ll listen that you’re X rank and/or will be Y rank soon? What’s the belt going to do for you that your skills aren’t doing? Are you going to wave it around at a potential attacker and scare them off with it? Do you really think they care? Royce Gracie has a great quote - “Your belt covers 2 inches of your (explicit - backside is forum friendly); you cover the rest.”
If you’re as unhappy as you seem to be, and this thread is now at 4 pages with no change anywhere in sight, the answer is to start looking elsewhere. Why does it have to be TKD? What about another style? Look at everything around you. Pick a good school, not a style. If you genuinely can’t find anything better, then stay put and change your expectations.
I know it sounds harsh. If we were actually talking instead of writing, it wouldn’t sound harsh at all. |
Not harsh at all. I have worked up a certain ability with 4 years of dedicated training. To start over and learn new bodymechanics does not appeal to me. I have begun a journey and consistently stuck with it all the way to red belt. I am close to a first degree black belt. The techniques seem to fit me too.
The options I was concidering was joining a Kyokushin club, but there is none in my city, only a Kyokushin budokai one. |
You wouldn't really have to learn a whole new set of body mechanics.
The think about martial arts is that they tend to have been developed and refined by people who understand how the typical human body works. Gods forbid, if you ever have to be rushed to hospital for emergency treatment, rest assured that the experts there won't be frantically leafing through your notes to fund out what martial art you practiced so they can understand your anatomy.
Of course there are subtle differences between styles.my first style was wado. I went from that to a form of kung fu. Fighting stance was a little bit different, and there were more open hand techniques, and the roundhouse kick was toes back instead of instep. But many core principles were common between the two. More recently (last few years) tang soo do became my chosen style. Almost everything is the same as wado, but with subtle changes, and a bit more kung fu style open hand stuff. I did aikido and judo for a while. Guess what, I see every style I've ever studied in every other style I've ever studied.
The main difference I've found between the styles I've practiced is the emphasis. Tang soo do has pretty much all the elements of wado, but wado focuses a lot on 'boxing' (by that I mean more closer to Chinese boxing than western). Tang soo do emphasises kicking and joint manipulation and take downs. But I've yet to come across anything unique.
One thing that's surprised me in a good way with having a few different styles, is that each 'new' style I try doesn't teach something new, but rather instead, shows me something I already thought I knew, but from a different perspective. I only did aikido for a short while, but that short time added loads to my tang soo do understanding. I recently started tai chi (the meditation kind, not the combat kind). My Tang soo do experience is helping me pick it up quickly, while the tai chi is making a big difference to my tang soo do.
Sorry this is quite a long post. What I'm trying to highlight is that martial art is a rich tapestry to be viewed from many angles. Some of the most insightful martial artists I know have tried multiple styles. The fact that you've stuck with one for 4 years shows you have what it takes to commit to study. Maybe have a look about. Keep an open mind. You don't have to quit your current one (unless you want to). You might do one class somewhere else and decide not to go back. Or you might try it and love it, for a while, then get bored and try something else. All good. You might even switch completely. You won't lose anything. As long as you keep an open mind, you're pretty much guaranteed to broaden your skills and understanding. |
People seem to think every thread is inherently a problem solving request. It is not. I wanted to relay my experience of ITF TaeKwonDo and compare it to other peoples experience. That is whether my school is a statistical outlier (which I strongly suspect it is). You wrote yourself that Tang Soo Do emphasises kicks over punches, and Tang Soo Do is the precursor of ITF TaeKwonDo. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I can understand the issues you are having with 1% kicking in terms of TKD. You expect, because it's TKD.
IMHO you either like the way your instructor teaches or you don't. If what they teach is not what you felt you signed up for then it's probably time to look else where. Having said that if the only issue you have is the kicking element, you could always watch a video, read a book or find someone to teach you the kicks.
It's hard to find good instructors. Learning different kicks is an easy issue to overcome.
Good luck.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Prototype wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
This is going to sound harsh, it that’s not my intent; I’m genuinely saying this in a good tone of voice so to speak...
You seem genuinely unhappy where you’re training. If that’s the case, leave. If it’s a waste of your time, leave. If you’re not getting what you signed up for, leave.
Life’s too short to get all frustrated about a hobby. I know people hate that word, but unless you’re getting paid to train and/or compete, paid to teach, or are using it as education for a future career; it’s a hobby IMO.
If the thought of being a white belt all over again has you cringing, you really should evaluate what exactly it is that you’re after here. Are you there to wear a belt and tell anyone who’ll listen that you’re X rank and/or will be Y rank soon? What’s the belt going to do for you that your skills aren’t doing? Are you going to wave it around at a potential attacker and scare them off with it? Do you really think they care? Royce Gracie has a great quote - “Your belt covers 2 inches of your (explicit - backside is forum friendly); you cover the rest.”
If you’re as unhappy as you seem to be, and this thread is now at 4 pages with no change anywhere in sight, the answer is to start looking elsewhere. Why does it have to be TKD? What about another style? Look at everything around you. Pick a good school, not a style. If you genuinely can’t find anything better, then stay put and change your expectations.
I know it sounds harsh. If we were actually talking instead of writing, it wouldn’t sound harsh at all. |
Not harsh at all. I have worked up a certain ability with 4 years of dedicated training. To start over and learn new bodymechanics does not appeal to me. I have begun a journey and consistently stuck with it all the way to red belt. I am close to a first degree black belt. The techniques seem to fit me too.
The options I was concidering was joining a Kyokushin club, but there is none in my city, only a Kyokushin budokai one. |
You wouldn't really have to learn a whole new set of body mechanics.
The think about martial arts is that they tend to have been developed and refined by people who understand how the typical human body works. Gods forbid, if you ever have to be rushed to hospital for emergency treatment, rest assured that the experts there won't be frantically leafing through your notes to fund out what martial art you practiced so they can understand your anatomy.
Of course there are subtle differences between styles.my first style was wado. I went from that to a form of kung fu. Fighting stance was a little bit different, and there were more open hand techniques, and the roundhouse kick was toes back instead of instep. But many core principles were common between the two. More recently (last few years) tang soo do became my chosen style. Almost everything is the same as wado, but with subtle changes, and a bit more kung fu style open hand stuff. I did aikido and judo for a while. Guess what, I see every style I've ever studied in every other style I've ever studied.
The main difference I've found between the styles I've practiced is the emphasis. Tang soo do has pretty much all the elements of wado, but wado focuses a lot on 'boxing' (by that I mean more closer to Chinese boxing than western). Tang soo do emphasises kicking and joint manipulation and take downs. But I've yet to come across anything unique.
One thing that's surprised me in a good way with having a few different styles, is that each 'new' style I try doesn't teach something new, but rather instead, shows me something I already thought I knew, but from a different perspective. I only did aikido for a short while, but that short time added loads to my tang soo do understanding. I recently started tai chi (the meditation kind, not the combat kind). My Tang soo do experience is helping me pick it up quickly, while the tai chi is making a big difference to my tang soo do.
Sorry this is quite a long post. What I'm trying to highlight is that martial art is a rich tapestry to be viewed from many angles. Some of the most insightful martial artists I know have tried multiple styles. The fact that you've stuck with one for 4 years shows you have what it takes to commit to study. Maybe have a look about. Keep an open mind. You don't have to quit your current one (unless you want to). You might do one class somewhere else and decide not to go back. Or you might try it and love it, for a while, then get bored and try something else. All good. You might even switch completely. You won't lose anything. As long as you keep an open mind, you're pretty much guaranteed to broaden your skills and understanding. |
People seem to think every thread is inherently a problem solving request. It is not. I wanted to relay my experience of ITF TaeKwonDo and compare it to other peoples experience. |
As far as I can see, you've achieved exactly that.
Other people, my self included, have shared out experiences within the context of the subject you raised.
Your headline question on the thread is whether or not 1% kicking is acceptable.
Folks could have answered with simple yes or no. But then that would be worthless, as it would be personal to the person answering. Instead people shared their experiences to allow you to take what you want from it, or leave it.
It seems to me your choice is simple. You're clearly not happy with your current training, but nor are you willing to try something new. If that's a fair assessment, and only you can decide if it is or not, then your choice is either put up with it, or walk away. If I'm wrong, then a whole world of opportunity lays before you. It's your choice.
Ask yourself what your personal goals are. They are personal. Different for everyone. We each must find a path that helps us to achieve them. |
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on the post.
