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Hudson1984
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 16

Styles: Shotokan, kickboxing

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:41 am    Post subject: Adding to Karate with other styles Reply with quote

Hi all,

been practicing Shotokan a little while now and loving it. Recently though I've felt like I need more Kumite practice and also would like to add more kicks to my arsenal.

so thought I'd add to Karate with other forms....Tried Kempo last night, now they are certainly a fantastic bunch and what they can do is amazing but unfortunately I'm left feeling that it's so far away from Karate that i'll never really be very good at it and it might be to the detriment of my karate training.

So, what would you lot recommend? I want to compete in 2016, I've tried a couple of local tournaments and loved it - not the best tournaments but they've left me wanting to progress which is good - so I want to skill up more, become a more rounded artist

so what mixes well with Shotokan? I'm not really interested in Freestyle type arts, I'd much rather learn something that takes years and has history and apply that to tournaments where applicable rather than learn purely "sport karate" etc.

any help/advice would be great
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tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6851
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great question! Anything you choose needs to be directed by your needs, that's going to really drive what you cross train in. It sounds like you're looking to plus up your kicks. With that said, focus on those arts that are known for specializing that might also give you another look at the rest of the stand up game.

I can't recommend Muay Thai enough for what you're asking for. The mechanics of stance and strategy will be different enough that you'll really enjoy learning a different theory for the same venue. Also, it has some dynamic kicking beyond the shin to the quad everyone automatically thinks of. Having just picked this up recently by adding it to the line up of our gym has been fantastic and I think you'd benefit.

As with anything, look for good quality control and an instructor who true get the authentic version of the art.

If you're really looking at the point circuit, and people that know me will be shocked I throw this out, look at a good TKD school. Again, different strategic goals but focused in the realm you're looing at and quite frankly they have some magnificent kicking.

Let us know what's around you and what you end up trialing. Good luck.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyokushin!!

It possess the kind of "get-in-your-face" type of Karate, that few Karate styles, imho, can offer and attest to. Kyokushin can be like waltzing into a fire in the midst of a 10 car pile-up; if you're not ready, and willing, to mix it up face to face, then this style of Karate isn't for you.

Depending where one lives, Kyokushin dojo's are abundant, but they can also be a cumbersome effort to locate. I believe that it might be worth your effort to visit a Kyokushin dojo.

The funny thing is that, while I'm suggesting Kyokushin, I'm not a proponent of, nor am I a practitioner of it either. No. This leads me to suggest...

Shindokan!!

It's an Okinawan style that comprises 85% hands, and 15% feet; all kicks are waist down. It's core is Tuite! Stances are more upright! It doesn't teach blocks, it teaches deflection as well as receiving. It also offers up something that's not always found abundantly in Karate styles, and that is, Grappling. Yes, Shindokan offers the staples what other Karate styles are known for: Kihon, Kata, Kumite, Kobudo, Tameshiwara, and so on and so forth.

The student body fluctuates between 9,000 - 10,000, and not the hundreds of 1,000's practitioners like Kyokushin. Dojo's are mainly found throughout California, hub being in Van Nuys, a part of the San Fernando Valley. Shindokan dojo's are there, this is for sure, but with their mindset of non-advertising of any type aside from occasional demo and the passing out of flyers, to find a Shindokan dojo, one has to practically trip over it on accident. Some Shindokan dojo's can be found outside of California, like Tulsa, Oklahoma and El Paso, Tx, if they're still operating, that is.

With whatever styles of Karate you finally choose, I wish you luck in your search!!



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Kyonovice
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 103


PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to suggest Kyokushin. I made the move from Shotokan to Kyokushin earlier this year and believe me, if it's competition you are looking for and more leg work (kicks), then Kyokushin is for you. Yes there are some major differences, yes you will find it a huge challenge (especially in changing of mindset), but my god you will love it!
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Hudson1984
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 16

Styles: Shotokan, kickboxing

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI all, yeah Iíve looked at kyokushin and it certainly appears to give absolutely everything Iím looking for Ė unfortunately the closest Dojo for me is 90 mins away which whilst isnít really too far for me (I drive a lot for work so no problem there) the times make it impossible as I finish work too late to get there in time, which for training regularly makes things impractical. Oh well get those lottery numbers going and weíll see!!

Shindokan is unfortunately a worse situation Ė canít find anything in my county or the neighbouring one so thatís really definitely out.

Muay thai Ė thereís possibility here though, lots of kickboxing clubs around near me, and some have a pretty good rep for being great places to train Ė Iíll keep this as a maybe though as none of them are traditional. I practiced kickboxing at the start of the year and the local club I used is unfortunately geared toward the less educated members of society who want to learn something quickly and just have a brawl rather than spending time perfecting a technique, instructor spent majority of the lesson in his office and just had things written on a blackboard!! Was more like boxercise at the local gym. This kinda left me seeking a more traditional training style.

I am a bit limited to whatís within suitable distance (which I shouldíve stated at the start reallyÖ.my bad!) and at the same time I want to ensure it enhances me as a rounded practitioner rather than teaching me contradictory techniques Ė as per Kendo as mentioned at the top

TKD was the route I actually looked into first Ė unfortunately the instructor recommended against cross training and as such Iíd rather not disrespect their wishes so that one is off the cards.

Practical options for me are: (some are still a good drive but Iím looking more at class times and my work commitments)
Ji-Jitsu Ė My friend teaches the class, heís a great instructor however itís geared more toward street defence and weapons which isnít my cup of tea really
Judo Ė This does actually appeal to me, no kicks or strikes of course but then I could speak with my Karate instructor (I take private lessons too) and just show patience and add more kicks, there seem to be a lot of kicks we do not practice at the moment which I could ask for Ė tobi geriís for instance. But Judo would seem to complement Shotokan by filling in the gaps Ė and the gradings are geared around tournaments so it could be ideal.
Kung-fu Ė as above really, tried it, doesnít seem complementary to current training
Ninjitsu Ė Donít know anything about it other than ninja connotations, max class size is 10 so could be good training.
Aikido Ė Itís at the club where I train Karate, good instructor, good class, but looks a little light and theatrical to me (feel free to correct me there) I think Iíd take Judo over Aikido as it seems that your opponent doesnít need to be willing to help lol, I like the idea of throwing someone who is trying not to be thrown.
Hapkido/Kuk Sul Ė Again, I know the instructor here, very well respected. Donít know a lot about the art though, from what Iíve seen itís again a little theatrical?
Freestyle Karate Ė REALLY not my cup of tea, I see these guys at tournaments, yes they win points and trophies but if they ever tried to use the techniques in anything other than a points match theyíd be broken in tiny pieces Ė thatís not for me.
Kickboxing/Muay thai Ė listed above

SO! After some rambling, Iím going to have a bash at Judo and discuss my training with my Sensei with regards to kicks, Iíve also signed up for a 3Ks Karate seminar next weekend and a weekend seminar in November so this should ramp up what I feel Iím missing. Adding Judo also opens the door to different competitions too meaning at some events I can take part in multiple sections which would be cool.

I am after all only Yellow belt in Karate and need to slow down with expectations Ė my concern was the lack of focus on kicks throughout the syllabus but Iíve been reassured that this is mainly due to the head instructor having knee surgery this year and is taking things a little easy until heís back to health as kicking is his main strength too.

Iíll keep you posted on progress though. Iím quite excited about the prospect of working through two systems at a time, seems a fun journey to me.
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Kyonovice
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Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 103


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

where abouts are you?
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Hudson1984
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 16

Styles: Shotokan, kickboxing

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

east coast on England
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Kyonovice
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Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 103


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I am in the South East (Kent), there are loads of Kyokushin (or off shoots) here.

You could try searching for off shoots of Kyokushin (I train at a place called Karate Jutsu Kai which is essentially Kyokushin but with a few differences). Other than that, have you looked at Goju Ryu at all? As far as I am aware, they use some quite good kicks and are pretty full on when it comes to sparring.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hudson1984 wrote:
east coast on England

Yeah, there are definitely no Shindokan dojo's outside of the USA!!

Of your given choices, I'd agree with your decision to go with Judo. But still, I'm sure there are Kyokushin dojo's in England, and I believe it would be worth a visit.



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Kyonovice
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Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 103


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there are loads of kyokusbin dojo's in England, its one of the most popular styles here. If the op could be a bit more specific as to where on east coast I could maybe help more
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