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Givnal
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 37
Location: USA
Styles: shudo-kan, gosoku-ryu
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 Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: After the fact |
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I was thinking, if you were accosted by an individual and were forced to defend yourself and after, that individual was going to need a long hospital stay, what would be your next move?
I suppose this may be a loaded question with huge dependence on circumstances such as witnesses, location such as (drunk guy at a bar, or mugger on the street), loved ones who might be with you, etc. However, would you leave the scene regardless as soon as it was over no matter what, or stay for the law and answer questions or maybe even try to press charges?
In my mind if there were no witnesses to confirm you were the intended victim you might have a problem proving you wern't the attacker. In a crowd, witnesses may not see the initial attack. I personally think Id bail regardless, and if the cops had an ID on me, license plate, etc, they could ask me questions later. Id just say I thought it was better I leave quick since I thought I could be out numbered, feared for my safty, etc.
In any case, the possibility of a civil suit could be very real even if it was proven that you were in the right, something else to consider.
Anyway, I noticed we train for these instances but dont talk much about ''after the fact'', so it seemed like a good discussion topic. |
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: Re: After the fact |
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| Givnal wrote: |
| I was thinking, if you were accosted by an individual and were forced to defend yourself and after, that individual was going to need a long hospital stay, what would be your next move? |
Firstly, assuming that you have injured a person severely enough that they require a stay in hospital, we would also assume that you were legally justified in using that level of force.
In most cases i would consider the best option to be leaving the scene asap. Has you mention above this depends alot on the situation, but in general, getting as far away from the threat as early as possible is your safest option.
If the authorities do find out that you were involved and take you in for questioning, or come to your house to ask questions, its important to be honest and tell them only information they need to know. If you are charged and they wish to question you further, i would suggest that you wait until you have a solicitor/lawyer present.
Going back to the reasonable force thing, this should be the basis of your argument. I.e. You defended yourself using a level of force you felt appropriate to the level of threat you were facing and you felt that if you didnt act at that time then you were in immediate danger of being seriously injured/killed. You fled the scene because you feared that you were in immediate danger if you didnt leave at that time.
Bottom line is, if you are going to get sued, put in jail etc for defending yourself, leaving or staying after the event will make little difference from a legal perspective(in my opinion), but leaving will dramatically increase your chance of survival. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: Re: After the fact |
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| cross wrote: |
Firstly, assuming that you have injured a person severely enough that they require a stay in hospital, we would also assume that you were legally justified in using that level of force. |
This, I agree with. If you were justified, then things should work out well for you. Otherwise, you may have to prove your justification; fear for life or bodily harm, etc.
| cross wrote: |
| In most cases i would consider the best option to be leaving the scene asap. Has you mention above this depends alot on the situation, but in general, getting as far away from the threat as early as possible is your safest option. |
This, I am not as sure about. If you feel that the scene is not safe, then you should get somewhere safe. Once there, you should report the incident to the authorities. Failure to report such an incident could leave you in a very sticky spot. If the scene is safe, and authorities are arriving or have arrived, then you should stick around and make a report for the police. You may be able to point out witnesses for your side as well.
Getting away can be a legitimate concern. Just make sure you report it once you are safe.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with the above in that if you deem it necessary to use force in self-preservation then you should be legally ok..
I think if it was me, I would probably ensure that the emergency services were notified. If the individual needs a long hospital stay then I'm guessing their not able to get back up so you should be safe to stop and make a call. Yet if you don't feel safe, I would personally leave the area, get somewhere safer and then deal with it. In the long run its probably best if you report it to the police or whoever because its gonna make you come off as the good guy / victim. Otherwise the authorities may take the other person's word for it. Don't those involved in hit and runs who don't report it get prosecuted?
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Don't those involved in hit and runs who don't report it get prosecuted? |
Yes, if they are indentified and tracked down. They can be charged for leaving the scene of an accident, and for failure to report the accident. If any level of injuries occured in the accident, the severity of the charges can increase.
_________________
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Don't those involved in hit and runs who don't report it get prosecuted? |
Yes, if they are indentified and tracked down. They can be charged for leaving the scene of an accident, and for failure to report the accident. If any level of injuries occured in the accident, the severity of the charges can increase. |
Ah. So does the same mindset apply to something like this even though the other person is the aggressor? Could you get done for something like negligence?
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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Givnal
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 37
Location: USA
Styles: shudo-kan, gosoku-ryu
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Don't those involved in hit and runs who don't report it get prosecuted? |
Yes, if they are indentified and tracked down. They can be charged for leaving the scene of an accident, and for failure to report the accident. If any level of injuries occured in the accident, the severity of the charges can increase. |
Ah. So does the same mindset apply to something like this even though the other person is the aggressor? Could you get done for something like negligence? |
Id think leaving the scene of a crime would only be illegal if you were the criminal. A victim or intended victim shouldnt be in trouble, IMO.
I think where you could get in trouble is if the attacker lies and there are no witnesses to back you up, or if someone mistakes your defense for a first strike. On top of that, people have been dragged into civil court for wrongful death by shooting a criminal in their own house, so it stands to reason the same could happen in this case, even if nobody died. People sue for any reason.
I think this still makes me lean toward getting out of there quickly. Maybe an anonymous 911 call would be good in case they didnt get up. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Getting away, especially if you feel that you are still in danger, is not a bad idea. What is a bad idea is not reporting the incident. Once you feel safe, you should report it immediately, for you own sake. That way, you can give a statement from your point of view while the actions are fresh in your mind, and you can justify your actions.
_________________
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Again, assuming that your force was legally justified...
I agree with bushido man, you have a legal and moral obligation to report the incident. You may, depending on the creativity of the officer and your reluctance to speak wiht them, get charged with obstruction of some sort (justidicionts and state law permitting).
Ceratinly you need to seek medical services for the individual. A retreat to a safe enviornment is fine, but leveing the scene is a bad idea. If you get tracked down later it predesposes law enforcement to consider your account of the incident as suspect. It makes you look guilty. An unfair perception, maybe, but it doesen't make it the fact that it happens less true. LEt's face it, giving a guy a beat down, however justified, and then leaivng the scene with out telling the cops, is a bit shady in most reasonable people's eyes.
As for the rest of the "after" part. Start preparing your statement the second the incident is over. Stick to the facts and how the individual brought this down on himself. Don't lie, or cover things up, even if you think they sound bad. If you were getting ready to get shanked and you punched the guy in the troat and actually did searous damage, don't say it happend while you were "wrestilng over the knife". Sure enough, some witness will have the actual version and it will not jive with yours. Again, this sends a red flag up. Be able to articulate why you punched him in the throat (for example's sake) and why that level of force was needed. It's way better to go that route than trying to spin things to a better light.
Good topic. |
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glockmeister
Green Belt
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 490
Location: Pa
Styles: Haganah, Krav Maga, JKD, Kickboxing,BJJ, Judo
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Getting away, especially if you feel that you are still in danger, is not a bad idea. What is a bad idea is not reporting the incident. Once you feel safe, you should report it immediately, for you own sake. That way, you can give a statement from your point of view while the actions are fresh in your mind, and you can justify your actions. |
I agree 100% 
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on the post.
