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Thai_Kick
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 207
Location: Ontario, Canada
Styles: Muay Thai, JKD and Kali

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Did he not write a test or an essay, did he not have to know the history? In some cases the physical can be signifcantly less difficult then the mental


I really don't know, I never asked him if he had to write a test or essay but he does know everything about the art and history, some of the best and toughest Kyokushin pratitioners come from Poland, Russia and Japan.

Quote:
Are you saying that kumite is more important then kata


Yes, being able to fight and defend yourself is more important then being able to perform a perfect Kata without a doubt. I look at it this way, if your a black belt and you can't fight or defend yourself then you should not have a black belt. I know a few "black belts" that can't do either, but their kata's are perfect and well timed so they get a black belt for it? I'm sorry but it dosen't sound right to me! Iv'e been training in Muay Thai for 5 years and compete in MMA tournaments, I have fought 3 "black belts" two of which trained in a karate style and the other TKD. I'm sorry to say but they did not desirve their black belts, they were not able to fight or defend themselves. I beat those "black belts" without a problem, they were honestly my easiest matches, but what makes this situation even worst is what will happen to them if the get into a street fight?
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KickChick
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Aug 2001
Posts: 3282


PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who are you to say they didn't deserve their black belts? I like LeaF am not in martial arts to compete. I am not involved in "sport" TKD for that very reason. Some martial art styles aren't even involved in any tournies/comps.

All martial artists should "personally" train hard for whatever the requirements may be to earn black belt, and most importantly be humble, Thai_Kick.

Black belts are just ordinary people who try hard and don't give up. A black belt can be "earned" in spite of any weaknesses you may have. What about men and women who begin training very late in life (like I did), people who are disabled (ask SaiFightsMS) or blind, and people who were very afraid of physical activity when they first started martial arts. Overcoming difficulties and physical challenges and never giving up and giving it all that you have is what determines your character, which is I believe an important trait of a black belt.... aside from a physical trait.

To be overconfident, to show off your skill, to look down on others because you "beat" them, shows a lack of respect is a charateristic of someone who is not worthy of a black belt.
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Thai_Kick
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 207
Location: Ontario, Canada
Styles: Muay Thai, JKD and Kali

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To be overconfident, to show off your skill, to look down on others because you "beat" them, shows a lack of respect is a charateristic of someone who is not worthy of a black belt.


I'm not overconfident, I'm confident in myself, in my skills and in my techniques, these qualities are shown ever time I train and compete. Show of my skill? How? Also I'm not looking down on them as individuals which you trying to make it sound like KickChick, I'm looking down at their ability as a black belt. "Not worthy of a black belt" sorry KickChick I don't train in art that has a belt ranking system!

Quote:
. What about men and women who begin training very late in life (like I did), people who are disabled (ask SaiFightsMS) or blind, and people who were very afraid of physical activity when they first started martial arts


It doesn't matter if your blind, old or disabled if your a black belt you should still be able to fight or defend yourself regardless. I was at a grappling tournament and in the 150lbs weight division a mentally challenged BJJ student was competing and he ended up winning in his division. Also a mentally challenged student that used to train in Muay Thai with me was an extremely good fighter, and he competed in a MMA tournament and won 2 matches and got 3rd place overall. Everyone has to overcome difficulties, but that should be no excuse for not being able to defend yourself as a black belt!
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ramymensa
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 1449
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I've already posted here ... in our school you must be at least 18 years old to become a shodan. I think it's a good thing, although I must admitt there are many kids aged 13 or 14 who deserve to become shodans. Well ... that's the rule and we must obey it
Being a black belt has got many "connotations" and perhaps that's why this rule appeared.
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ZR440
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 1597
Location: Michigan
Styles: Filipino

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Thai_Kick,
What are you going to do if you ever get clocked by a non-martial artist? I talking about the kind of hit where your head hits the floor and you wake up looking at some of your teeth.
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SBN Doug
KF VIP

Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 3767
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Kuk Sool Won

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

O.k., I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so I'll throw a late two cents in.

Thai_Kick, I'm not going to question your opinions, but here's what I'm seeing.

Everyone seems to be basing our opinon of who is "worthy" of a black belt on the criteria of our own art only. In your particular art, with it's strengths, these are probably worthy critera. However, we all need to remember that not every art is alike. That's why so many have evolved. One statement was that competition wins should be a criteria, but someone in KSW or Hapkido would not be allowed to use even half of what we know in that competition. I myself would probably get beaten by a Muay Thai practitioner if not allowed to use any techniques. However, those in striking intensive arts might benefit from this kind of test.

Physical strength is a powerful tool in a "hard" style. But in a soft style, general fitness is all they're concerned with due to their philosophy of re-direction of force. In a style focusing on "internal" power, they will not focus on external as much.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is we should not judge the skills of a practitioner from a different art based on our own art's criteria. What's the saying? "Don't judge a man (or woman ) until you've walked a mile in their moccasins."
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BlueDragon1981
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 779
Location: USA
Styles: Goshin Jutsu Karate, Shotokan

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I to this day do not know or have ever known any kid who has the maturity for a black belt. On the other hand I know some black belts who are older who do not have the maturity to have a black belt. Maturity and outlook is a very important aspect of getting a black belt in my opinion. As for what age nothing under 15. Even at that age it is hard to come across a mature person.
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Thai_Kick
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 207
Location: Ontario, Canada
Styles: Muay Thai, JKD and Kali

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey Thai_Kick,
What are you going to do if you ever get clocked by a non-martial artist? I talking about the kind of hit where your head hits the floor and you wake up looking at some of your teeth.


Hey ZR440, What are you going to do if you ever get clocked by a non-martial artist? I talking about the kind of hit where your head hits the floor and you wake up looking at some of your teeth.

If you don't have anything intelligent to say, then stay out of the conversation ZR440!
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SaiFightsMS
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Joined: 28 Oct 2001
Posts: 6397
Location: Ohio
Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, Shi-to Ryu

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic will continue to come up as long as there are martial arts students who think about what they are doing, why they are doing it and how what they do compares to what others do.

As a participant I can speak from experience as an older student and as a physically handicapped student. When I tested I did the same requirements as everyone else testing for the same ranks and I did them successfully. And when I switched associations and retested I did more than the other students did. (I didn't find that out until later) I earned my black belt and my nidan belt in my primary style. And I wore my black eye from my nidan test proudly. (I missed a headblock on my blind side)

I am not posting to defend myself. Just to remind all of us that every situation is different. There are some with belts who really should not have them. And there are some without belts who really should have them. Every one is an indiviual in an individual situation. Age and condition are just a small part of the total package.
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KickChick
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Aug 2001
Posts: 3282


PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to take a few steps back Thai_kick and take a few deep breaths my man.... we are all entitled to our opinions here, -- not one person more than another. If you don't train in an art that doesn't have a belt ranking system then you are just basing your knowledge on generalizations from which you formalize your own opinions.

Let's get back to the subject of "Age and the Martial Arts" .... not whether or not you should have to compete to get a black belt or how many of your teeth show up on the floor next to you after a fight!
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