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Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RW wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
RW wrote:
There is a series of videos in yotube called aikido quest.

Basically an aikido practitioner decided his style was ineffective and is trying to change it. He quit his organization and he's trying to incorporate other techniques to his art.

This is one of his videos:

I have great respect for that guy. He has guts, and an open mind. But with respect to him, he is terrible at aikido. That's why his style doesn't work. One of the core principles in aikido is tai sabaki, or body movement. Basically about always positioning yourself in a way that evades or merges with the opponent, rather than directly opposing. This guy does do this.

He also isn't comparing apples for apples. Aikido was never developed for sport. It is simply not designed for the classic scenario of two fighters square up for head to head fighting. It is designed for self defence against a civilian aggressor. Not a trained combat sport fighter. Of course that's not an excuse. Most casual amateur karateka or kung fu practitioners or even your casual 4 hours per week muay thai office worker guy will get knacked by someone who routinely competes. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with they style. It just depends what you're training for and how much you train. If you train for the ring, you'll do OK in the ring. If you train to win trophies for kata, you'll do alright at kata. The trouble with Aikido is that because it's about real self defence, you can't really practice it for real with measurable benchmarks in your goals. The MMA guy can test himself regularly in the ring, to see how he does in the ring. The person who competes in kata can get critical feedback from competition. The person that trains for self defence can't really go round goading random strangers into swinging a bat at them, so it's hard for them to measure themselves. So some step out of their comfort zone into someone else's. The results are invariably the same. The person that has trained for the ring defeats the person that has trained for something else, and then we all applaud MMA as the most effective style.

That's my problem with the self defense angle of martial arts. I practice them because I like them and I have a deep appreciation for their technique and health benefits, but the problem with any discipline oriented towards self defense is that you cannot properly stress test many of the techniques.

A boxer actually practices trying to punch the opponent as hard as he can, while also trying not to get punched. A Muay Thai is truly throwing his best kicks.

But one cannot grab a club or glass bottle and just swing it full force against an uke. The uke cannot really just grab your wrist and flip you aikido style full force because he will probably break the attacker's wrist.

When people see aikido demonstrations and point out the fact that the ukes are flipping like in an action movie and that's unrealistic I always point out that the ukes HAVE to go with the throw, or else if they resist they could end with a broken limb. The downside is that stress testing will never be as realistic.

That is why I also have doubts about karate's ippon kumite when it comes to self defense applications, who punches in zen kutsu dachi in real life? ANd who will stay stationary after punching in so you can pull one of those takedowns?

I like Aikido, and I wouldn't mind knowing more about it, but that's because I like martial arts

I took aikido for a while because I was interested in learning more about our one step sparring, which I think might be what you call ipon kumite? Ie one attack, specific defence counter?

I really enjoyed it and was making good progress with it. It helped a lot with my tang soo do in that I became more relaxed and fluid in sparring, so I could see that aikido really does have value. Sadly class times changed and I could not longer get there on time after work, so I ended up quitting it. But I still keep the principles I learned.

With the one step sparring, I hear what you say. When I train with a suitably willing partner, I always try to toughen it up a bit. I will resist and attempt certain counters, if my partner is willing to train the same way. Unfortunately not all appreciate it. It is a little bit sad when you get a second dan grown man getting upset because he can't make something work against resistance after 2 or 3 attempts, but my view is if it doesn't work against resistance in the hall among friends, it's not going to work against resistance outside against people than genuinely want to hurt you and may be drunk or high and gave a high pain threshold and a touch of psychosis.
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