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Luther unleashed
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Joined: 30 Jan 2014
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Location: Phoenix
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as for chun kuk do, Norris built his art around tang Soo do, and added the other arts he learned. For politically correct reasons we should call it by its name chun kuk do, in essence it's more TSD then anything though. I use a good deal of chun kuk do technuiqes and combinations in my teaching, it's fits nicely.

As to taekwondo being called Tang Soo do iv never heard this. They are very different arts. I think it's pretty universal that they are different. I think a great deal of people write stuff and don't know what their really talking about from experience. In the end the history doesn't always reflect what is today, it's just steps taken to get here.

Reading can lead to a good deal of ideas that make sense on paper but in a martial arts studio they are different. The Korean men being drafted, never heard that one but I'm sure that's a valid piece of history. Thanks for that.
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truejim
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Joined: 30 Oct 2014
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Styles: Kukkiwon/WTF

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luther unleashed wrote:
As to taekwondo being called Tang Soo do iv never heard this...


As an example, back in the day, you'd hear people say that Chuck Norris practiced taekwondo, when of course it was Tang Soo Do.

As an aside, I recently re-watched the movie Best of the Best after not having seen it in many years. It's also interesting how often that film uses the terms karate and taekwondo interchangeably. I mean like seriously...it treats them like synonyms.

Luther unleashed wrote:
The Korean men being drafted, never heard that one but I'm sure that's a valid piece of history..


Perhaps the most famous example is this poor guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong

The poor guy (Korean) was conscripted into the Japanese army, was captured by the Soviets and then conscripted into their army, then was captured by the Germans and conscripted into their army, so that on D-Day the Allies found a Korean man (and assumed him to be Japanese) in among the Germans! He fought on BOTH sides of World War II!

The movie "My Way" is a fictionalized version of his life, and it's an entertaining flick: recommended.
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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luther unleashed wrote:
As to taekwondo being called Tang Soo do iv never heard this. They are very different arts. I think it's pretty universal that they are different. I think a great deal of people write stuff and don't know what their really talking about from experience. In the end the history doesn't always reflect what is today, it's just steps taken to get here.

They are different arts now but pre-1950's the 5 original Kwans (which included the Moo Duk Kwan) were using varying names for their styles. "Tang Soo Do" was used by many to describe their style as it is the Korean pronunciation of "Karate-do" (China hand, 唐手道) along with the term "Kong Soo Do" (Karate-do written as "empty hand", 空手道).

It wasn't until they were encouraged to pick a new Korean name as part of a government strategy to restore Korea's national identity, that the Kwans adopted "Tae Kwon Do". They came together to form the Korean Tae Soo Do Association (KTA) though the name was then changed to Korean Tae Kwon Do Association in 1965. Hwang Kee and the Moo Duk Kwan decided not to adopt the Tae Kwon Do name and to continue using the name Tang Soo Do and this name also stuck with many individual instructors; Jhoon Rhee for example used the name "Tang Soo Do" when he first started teaching in the US
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Luther unleashed
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually chuck Norris did study Tae kwon do truejim, so it's possible it was meant in that way. I'm a fan of the best of the best I'll have to look at that one, been a while. Tae kwon do is karate with more emphasis on kicking to me. Iv said before as a person who has studied very different arts like hung gar king fu and things like that, it's hard to not see that Tae kwon do does come from karate. The second response, that's terrible, I'll have to check out "my way" it sounds interesting. Thanks.

Dwx I suppose there's a version of Tae Kwon Do I'm not farmiliar with? I began in ITF in 94 when I was 17 but transitioned over to WTF later on. I moved a lot so pretty much changed arts a lot but I never studied atae kwon do version that relates to tang Soo do, at least that I can remember. Weird. It's clear that the way they throw blocks and such are similar, but to karate in general, I can't see a similarity to TSD outside of basic style. Of course your kicking out dates that pre-date me by a huge margin haha

Iv never been huge on the history of things. I find more interest in the mechanics and technical side so I'm glad you guys are posting this stuff.
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DWx
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Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luther unleashed wrote:

Dwx I suppose there's a version of Tae Kwon Do I'm not farmiliar with? I began in ITF in 94 when I was 17 but transitioned over to WTF later on. I moved a lot so pretty much changed arts a lot but I never studied atae kwon do version that relates to tang Soo do, at least that I can remember. Weird. It's clear that the way they throw blocks and such are similar, but to karate in general, I can't see a similarity to TSD outside of basic style. Of course your kicking out dates that pre-date me by a huge margin haha

Iv never been huge on the history of things. I find more interest in the mechanics and technical side so I'm glad you guys are posting this stuff.

What we now know as Tae Kwon Do was originally called Tang Soo Do, only Hwang Kee kept the original name for his style.

The short version of it:

After the Korean occupation 5 schools arose: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwan

Song Moo Kwan
Chung Do Kwan
Moo Duk Kwan
Chang Moo Kwan
Jidokwan

Each teaching their own brand of martial arts which they'd learnt in Japan or China. As most were teaching a form of Shotokan or Shudokan, they simply called their arts Tang Soo Do or Kong Soo Do as these are the Korean pronunciations of Karate-Do. In the 1960's, I forget the actual date, they were encouraged to work together and unify under a single name hence they all came together under the banner "Tae Kwon Do" in 1965.

Moo Duk Kwan kept the Tang Soo Do name and continued to develop on its own.

The Oh Do Kwan which was born out the Chung Do Kwan eventually left and has become what we now know as ITF Taekwon-Do.

The rest of the groups formed the WTF.

Slightly longer version: http://www.taekwondo-guide.com/Taekwondo-History.html

So yes they are different styles now but once upon a time all went by the "Karate-Do" name.
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Luther unleashed
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's good reading there, thanks for posting that here. I think it's important to have a lot of accurate history, as well as a lot of current experiences in a thread like this, that is supposed to be all about the art.
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Luther unleashed
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, as we have such little interest in this topic I think it's time to try and bring it to light once again. This thread has gotten some good attention on the historical side such as its history, but is really lacking a good deal of people who actually practice the art such as myself.

Historical facts are interesting to some extent however, they don't always reflect what's really happening in the NOW in a place we train. Tang Soo Do is a very popular martial art, if you research places in the Phoenix area ( which is where I am) you would be surprised to know there are really a large amount of places that teach it. Because it is referee to as Karate, I think it's a much easier thing to remember, so it sticks quite easily. This is why I believe so many people have to actually heard of it.

Tang Soo Do is a very humble martial art as a fighting art goes, practitioners are taught about the negative impacts of having a bad attitude, how important enthusiasm is, and spirits, and how to fight so that you do not have to. This is why although I teach a mixture at different levels of different martial arts that I have studied, I choose this Korean karate martial arts as the foundation, because it offers so many great mental approaches that are truly beneficial two people and children in our society.

Tang Soo Do is not a sport, it is not a fighting art, it IS a way of life. Many martial arts have these, and as I teach other martial arts like Tae Kwon Do and kickbkxing, I can only sit back and truly appreciate how in depth Tang Soo Do works on the SELF.
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tangsoomomma
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Joined: 09 Dec 2015
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Styles: Tang Soo Do

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions about arm patches... Reply with quote

Mend wrote:
Is a Red colored "Cho Dan" arm patch different then a Green colored "Cho Dan" Arm patch?

This applies to the Int. Tang Soo Do Fed.

I've noticed different colors in class - wondering if this is like our belt system and Green is the "Junior" to the Red or vice versa?

Thanks.


Mend, I am ITF TSD so I can answer this question. The different colored patches are a representation each recert. As far as the order, I'm not entirely sure, they come in the mail and I hand them out to whomever they are for. Your Sa Bom Nim should be able to answer that question or just ask one of the Cho Dan's what recert they are on.
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Luther unleashed
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some random info... The way of the empty hand, although a loose translation of Tamg Soo Do, it is the equivalent of the Japanese version know as Karate which is of course "empty hand" or some of the time seen as Karate -Do which is "the way of the empty hand". This has always been a known translation but the more specific translation for Tang Soo Do is "the way of the China hand". It is basically a Korean Version of Japanese Shotokan.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That translation is part of the reason that Gen. Choi wanted to do away with it.
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