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DauntlessDruid
White Belt
Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 7
Styles: Isshinryu
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 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: Re: All fingers and thumbs |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
If I think about the injuries I've accumulated throughout all my years in martial arts, they can be broadly put into two categories.
Wear and tear/overuse : These are the usual muscle strains and light sprains, and a few episodes of tendinitis that thankfully resolved with conservative treatment.
Impact injuries : What would martial arts be about if we didn't take the occasional knock? This is basically bruises and in my case, one broken bone.
I'm not concerned about the first category. That can be mitigated by training wisely and resting correctly.
The second category though, if I were to break it down further, I'd say probably 90% of my injuries are to fingers and thumbs.
I'd further say that the majority of such injuries are the result of blocking kicks, where I partially miss the block, and end up receiving it on my fingers rather than palm of hand or wrist. In tang soo do and other styles I've practiced ( except wado ) we use both open hand and closed techniques. I generally prefer open hand for blocking, as it allows me to move more fluidly with less tension.
What do folks think on this? Do people prefer to keep tight fists when sparring? Perhaps there's some technique adjustment or hand strengthening strategy that reduces finger sprains? Or perhaps there's nothing unusual about my situation and sprained fingers and thumbs are just an occupational hazard of our pass time? |
The rules of sparing at my Dojo actually don't allow anyone below sankyu (third kyu) to open their hands during sparring for this very reason. My instructor doesn't want anyone jamming or breaking fingers. Even at sankyu I rarely open hands and if I do it's to parry a punch and then my hands close again. I don't think there really is any way to avoid finger injury if you keep your hands open on a regular basis. I also generally try to avoid blocking kicks with my arms, to begin with. I'd rather check a kick with my own leg, or step to the side to avoid it. Sometimes I will try to parry kicks but I tend to use my forearm for that. After getting plenty of black and blue marks trying to block kicks with my arm in my early days, I learned if it's a force on force block, the leg is going to win over the arm. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: All fingers and thumbs |
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| DauntlessDruid wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
If I think about the injuries I've accumulated throughout all my years in martial arts, they can be broadly put into two categories.
Wear and tear/overuse : These are the usual muscle strains and light sprains, and a few episodes of tendinitis that thankfully resolved with conservative treatment.
Impact injuries : What would martial arts be about if we didn't take the occasional knock? This is basically bruises and in my case, one broken bone.
I'm not concerned about the first category. That can be mitigated by training wisely and resting correctly.
The second category though, if I were to break it down further, I'd say probably 90% of my injuries are to fingers and thumbs.
I'd further say that the majority of such injuries are the result of blocking kicks, where I partially miss the block, and end up receiving it on my fingers rather than palm of hand or wrist. In tang soo do and other styles I've practiced ( except wado ) we use both open hand and closed techniques. I generally prefer open hand for blocking, as it allows me to move more fluidly with less tension.
What do folks think on this? Do people prefer to keep tight fists when sparring? Perhaps there's some technique adjustment or hand strengthening strategy that reduces finger sprains? Or perhaps there's nothing unusual about my situation and sprained fingers and thumbs are just an occupational hazard of our pass time? |
The rules of sparing at my Dojo actually don't allow anyone below sankyu (third kyu) to open their hands during sparring for this very reason. My instructor doesn't want anyone jamming or breaking fingers. Even at sankyu I rarely open hands and if I do it's to parry a punch and then my hands close again. I don't think there really is any way to avoid finger injury if you keep your hands open on a regular basis. I also generally try to avoid blocking kicks with my arms, to begin with. I'd rather check a kick with my own leg, or step to the side to avoid it. Sometimes I will try to parry kicks but I tend to use my forearm for that. After getting plenty of black and blue marks trying to block kicks with my arm in my early days, I learned if it's a force on force block, the leg is going to win over the arm. |
This is one of the reasons why I actually prefer open hand for blocking. It's faster because it's more relaxed, but as importantly if not even more important, it makes it easier to flow around the attack. I'd never try to block a kick with force on force as you put it. But if you're relaxed, you can kind of half block, half push off from an incoming kick. Ie get your hands or arm there but with plenty of give in it, like a spring, so it doesn't break, and use that to feel the way things are going while you flow with the force and move in.
All sounds good, and usually works great, but every now and then you catch your fingers or thumb. |
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DauntlessDruid
White Belt
Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 7
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: All fingers and thumbs |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
This is one of the reasons why I actually prefer open hand for blocking. It's faster because it's more relaxed, but as importantly if not even more important, it makes it easier to flow around the attack. I'd never try to block a kick with force on force as you put it. But if you're relaxed, you can kind of half block, half push off from an incoming kick. Ie get your hands or arm there but with plenty of give in it, like a spring, so it doesn't break, and use that to feel the way things are going while you flow with the force and move in.
All sounds good, and usually works great, but every now and then you catch your fingers or thumb. |
I'd call that more of a parry, but I think it's probably six of one, half dozen of the other. Either way, I do parry kicks, I just use my forearm not my hand and I keep my fingers closed. I don't think you need to keep a tight fist to keep your finger safe, just not completely open. |
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Shizentai
Green Belt
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 417
Styles: karate
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: Re: All fingers and thumbs |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
This is one of the reasons why I actually prefer open hand for blocking. It's faster because it's more relaxed, but as importantly if not even more important, it makes it easier to flow around the attack. I'd never try to block a kick with force on force as you put it. But if you're relaxed, you can kind of half block, half push off from an incoming kick. Ie get your hands or arm there but with plenty of give in it, like a spring, so it doesn't break, and use that to feel the way things are going while you flow with the force and move in.
All sounds good, and usually works great, but every now and then you catch your fingers or thumb. |
I agree with you on never blocking a kick force-on-force. Still, in 18 years I have also never once broken a finger in training. I have learned to be in the right place at the right time with my hands. For me this means a closed fist at the moment of impact, but it also means letting your arm do a lot of the work, not the hand.
I actually have a bit of a disability when it comes to proper nerve function in my hands (due a deformity in how nerves pass through my elbows). What that means is that if I get bumped a certain way, I temporarily lose the ability to move or feel my hand or hands. I find that if I keep my hands in a fist while sparring, then I have something useful to work with, even if it gets stuck like that for the duration of the fight.
I've never found that closing my fist slows me down though. If you're generating all of your speed from the hand alone, you might be missing what the hip has to offer in the endeavor. I wonder if those open-hand finger-risk motions you like so much are just a way of cuing some coordinated movement. Maybe try video taping yourself and breaking it down. I bet if you focus on this kind of training, you can come up with a way to generate that speed without relying on finger-smashing hand movements.
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"My work itself is my best signature."
-Kawai Kanjiro |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: |
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To those with that keep their hands open because it’s faster - closing your hands doesn’t mean they need to be tightly closed. Rather than “making a fist,” just loosely close your hands. Imagine having something in your hands that will fall out if you open them, but break if you squeeze. My high school football coach used to make us run sprints with potato chips in our hands every now and then. Same concept.
Just because your hands are closed doesn’t mean they need to be closed tightly. Just tighten them up right before you block. Same thing if you were going to punch, your keep your fist loose until right before it makes contact. I need to remind myself to close my hands when not punching too  |
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