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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate your words of wisdom but I think the context is slightly off topic. As far as learning from students goes I am in agreement as I have learned much. In terms of my earlier comments I was specifically speaking of other instructors.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
Some good insights here. Thanks all.

Just to pick up on a few points.

I never undermine any of our instructors. In that I'll never say in front of another student that I'm skeptical about a technique for example. If I don't believe something would work under pressure, I'll ask my instructor quietly if I'm missing something because I can't seem to make it work well.

With regard to playing with different angles of incoming, I dint mean radically different. For example, if a preset routine calls for a high block against a punch to the face, I wouldn't ask how it would work against a foot sweep for example. But I would ask what if the straight punch was a hook or a haymaker. Or what if the right straight punch was immediately followed by a left.


I try to get my guys to undermine my techniques all the time. I encourage them to doubt and question everything and anything I do. I only ask that they be vocal and voice their opinion to ME rather than someone else when Iím not there.

Frankly, I love having people like you in my class. I find they stick with me the most and obviously really understand the method to my madness. If you like getting answers to the questions you ask, youíd love being in my class.

That said, my personal opinion is that one should always be skeptical. Iím teaching you a science, not a religious dogma. Iíve found those that get most upset when people have questions are the ones that donít have the answers....
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14407
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
Some good insights here. Thanks all.

Just to pick up on a few points.

I never undermine any of our instructors. In that I'll never say in front of another student that I'm skeptical about a technique for example. If I don't believe something would work under pressure, I'll ask my instructor quietly if I'm missing something because I can't seem to make it work well.

With regard to playing with different angles of incoming, I dint mean radically different. For example, if a preset routine calls for a high block against a punch to the face, I wouldn't ask how it would work against a foot sweep for example. But I would ask what if the straight punch was a hook or a haymaker. Or what if the right straight punch was immediately followed by a left.


I try to get my guys to undermine my techniques all the time. I encourage them to doubt and question everything and anything I do. I only ask that they be vocal and voice their opinion to ME rather than someone else when Iím not there.

Frankly, I love having people like you in my class. I find they stick with me the most and obviously really understand the method to my madness. If you like getting answers to the questions you ask, youíd love being in my class.

That said, my personal opinion is that one should always be skeptical. Iím teaching you a science, not a religious dogma. Iíve found those that get most upset when people have questions are the ones that donít have the answers....

Solid post!!



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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
Some good insights here. Thanks all.

Just to pick up on a few points.

I never undermine any of our instructors. In that I'll never say in front of another student that I'm skeptical about a technique for example. If I don't believe something would work under pressure, I'll ask my instructor quietly if I'm missing something because I can't seem to make it work well.

With regard to playing with different angles of incoming, I dint mean radically different. For example, if a preset routine calls for a high block against a punch to the face, I wouldn't ask how it would work against a foot sweep for example. But I would ask what if the straight punch was a hook or a haymaker. Or what if the right straight punch was immediately followed by a left.


I try to get my guys to undermine my techniques all the time. I encourage them to doubt and question everything and anything I do. I only ask that they be vocal and voice their opinion to ME rather than someone else when Iím not there.

Frankly, I love having people like you in my class. I find they stick with me the most and obviously really understand the method to my madness. If you like getting answers to the questions you ask, youíd love being in my class.

That said, my personal opinion is that one should always be skeptical. Iím teaching you a science, not a religious dogma. Iíve found those that get most upset when people have questions are the ones that donít have the answers....


Too true. As Sensei8 points out... Solid Post!
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14407
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
I appreciate your words of wisdom but I think the context is slightly off topic. As far as learning from students goes I am in agreement as I have learned much. In terms of my earlier comments I was specifically speaking of other instructors.

Students; good or bad or indifferent, help make the CI better on and off the floor!!



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Chunmonchek
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 177

Styles: Goju

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
Some good insights here. Thanks all.

Just to pick up on a few points.

I never undermine any of our instructors. In that I'll never say in front of another student that I'm skeptical about a technique for example. If I don't believe something would work under pressure, I'll ask my instructor quietly if I'm missing something because I can't seem to make it work well.

With regard to playing with different angles of incoming, I dint mean radically different. For example, if a preset routine calls for a high block against a punch to the face, I wouldn't ask how it would work against a foot sweep for example. But I would ask what if the straight punch was a hook or a haymaker. Or what if the right straight punch was immediately followed by a left.



I wouldn't find you a difficult, much less a nightmare, student. My teacher has always encouraged questions/inquiry at the appropriate time, as do I.

When I first started training with my teacher I already had over 15 years in the arts. I only asked him questions that I thought I knew the answer to. This way I was not merely getting an answer to a discrete question, but affirmation that I was on the right track.

So I would advise you to ask questions until you have enough proficiency in your training to do likewise.
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Chunmonchek
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 177

Styles: Goju

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
TJ-Jitsu wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
Some good insights here. Thanks all.

Just to pick up on a few points.

I never undermine any of our instructors. In that I'll never say in front of another student that I'm skeptical about a technique for example. If I don't believe something would work under pressure, I'll ask my instructor quietly if I'm missing something because I can't seem to make it work well.

With regard to playing with different angles of incoming, I dint mean radically different. For example, if a preset routine calls for a high block against a punch to the face, I wouldn't ask how it would work against a foot sweep for example. But I would ask what if the straight punch was a hook or a haymaker. Or what if the right straight punch was immediately followed by a left.


I try to get my guys to undermine my techniques all the time. I encourage them to doubt and question everything and anything I do. I only ask that they be vocal and voice their opinion to ME rather than someone else when Iím not there.

Frankly, I love having people like you in my class. I find they stick with me the most and obviously really understand the method to my madness. If you like getting answers to the questions you ask, youíd love being in my class.

That said, my personal opinion is that one should always be skeptical. Iím teaching you a science, not a religious dogma. Iíve found those that get most upset when people have questions are the ones that donít have the answers....


Too true. As Sensei8 points out... Solid Post!


I totally agree!
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2207


PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no nightmare students disruptive ones yes.

Personally I believe in what I teach works, therefore all questions welcome, no matter what is asked.

Problem is CI's believing and teaching blindly (with second hand knowledge) without pressure testing the curriculum to a reasonable high standard, especially in self defence scenarios, thereby feeding students with a false sense of confidence.

It is one thing learning a technique in a class and very much another to actually be able to use it under stress in an actual fight in the street, if students forget that aspect, then it just becomes a place to build egos.

A student should be thinking that their life could be on the line some day and fighting might be the only way out to stay alive, therefore ask all the questions needed, learn from the answers a make the most use of them as possible.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14407
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the CI is the final authority in many things, the student is accountable of themselves across the board. Train....don't train!! Be serious...not be!! Not only should the CI ensure that what they're teaching is effective, the student must find out for themselves...that too is the student being accountable.

After all, outside of the dojo, it's you, and no one else that will have to ensure their safety.



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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2207


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Wing Chun we have a saying "Don't be greedy don't be afraid" this can be applied to many things, including a student asking questions to the CI.
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