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bustr
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 22 Sep 2001
Posts: 71
Location: Bridge City, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: American point karate compared to the rest of the world Reply with quote

I've noticed that American point karate fighters stand sideways, lean backwards away from their opponents and rely on their lead hand and foot. American point fighters throw wild strikes at targets against which they would not be effective and frequently throw themselves off balance. Apparently this is an optimum approach but it looks like it would be suicidal in a street fight.

American point fighting
https://youtu.be/KXlyBMch6UA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb5AAzHDyLY
https://youtu.be/vpPMTovVw9Q

JKA, WSKA and WKF fighters stand up in a back stance and use reverse punches and rear leg kicks. They never use backfists. Their karate looks like karate and they look like they could defend themselves if the need called for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oQ5ROZC4Yc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GrGu5NHqok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uf0JJqTHSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdDOuW8cm88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLGyZ_O5Nzs

Is this caused by a difference in the rules? What are those differences?
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the first 3 videos show people who have very sloppy technique, I don't think it's a large enough sample to assume all American point karate fighters fight that way (the first 2 videos feature the same fighter.)
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(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27516
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with point sparring is that it doesn't really matter what it looks like, it just matters if you get the point.

Now, standing in a side-on stance and using lead leg kicks to keep an opponent at bay and using backfists as strikes is a sound strategy. Bill "Supefoot" Wallace made good use of that strategy for years. Just because you find a few people who look sloppy doing it doesn't make it a bad strategy, or a legitimate way of defending oneself, either. This side-on stance can be somewhat limiting, though, making it difficult to strike with the rear hand, and making the only really viable back leg options to be spinning kicks, which can be great counters or combo pieces.

The back stance approach can allow the fighter to have lots of offensive options available to them, more easily employing back leg kicks and reverse strikes. However, the tradeoff is that their body positions leaves more targets available to strike in the point system, therefore requiring good defensive capabilities, too.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14155
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
The problem with point sparring is that it doesn't really matter what it looks like, it just matters if you get the point.

Now, standing in a side-on stance and using lead leg kicks to keep an opponent at bay and using backfists as strikes is a sound strategy. Bill "Supefoot" Wallace made good use of that strategy for years. Just because you find a few people who look sloppy doing it doesn't make it a bad strategy, or a legitimate way of defending oneself, either. This side-on stance can be somewhat limiting, though, making it difficult to strike with the rear hand, and making the only really viable back leg options to be spinning kicks, which can be great counters or combo pieces.

The back stance approach can allow the fighter to have lots of offensive options available to them, more easily employing back leg kicks and reverse strikes. However, the tradeoff is that their body positions leaves more targets available to strike in the point system, therefore requiring good defensive capabilities, too.

Solid post!!



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