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Karateforfun3
White Belt
Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 1
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:14 pm Post subject: Are throws legal in karate tournaments? |
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I know sweeps are legal in full contact (pretty sure not in semi contact though), but are any type of throws legal in traditional karate tournaments? (Either semi or full contact?) Are they ever used, and if so, which ones are common? Thanks a bunch. |
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aurik
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 490
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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In WKF rules, throws are legal as long as you follow them up with a legal striking technique. In fact, if you do succeed in sweeping/throwing your opponent to the ground and scoring on them, it's worth 3 points, the same as a head-level kick.
Of course, if you throw an opponent and injure him in the process, you will most likely be penalized. _________________ My Journey (So Far)
Shuri-Ryu 1996-1997 - Gokyu
Judo 1996-1997 - Yonkyu
Uechi-Ryu 2018-Present - Nidan
ABS Bladesmith 2021-Present - Apprentice |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16386
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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aurik wrote: |
In WKF rules, throws are legal as long as you follow them up with a legal striking technique. In fact, if you do succeed in sweeping/throwing your opponent to the ground and scoring on them, it's worth 3 points, the same as a head-level kick.
Of course, if you throw an opponent and injure him in the process, you will most likely be penalized. |
Solid post!!
_________________ **Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2730
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:49 am Post subject: |
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aurik wrote: |
In WKF rules, throws are legal as long as you follow them up with a legal striking technique. In fact, if you do succeed in sweeping/throwing your opponent to the ground and scoring on them, it's worth 3 points, the same as a head-level kick.
Of course, if you throw an opponent and injure him in the process, you will most likely be penalized. |
According to the WKF judging class I took some years ago, the throws are not allowed to lift both of the opponent's feet off the floor (other than sweeping someone who is kicking), because it makes the throw "dangerous." The problem I found with this, in practice, is that people proceeded to do hip throws incorrectly, making them more dangerous, rather than less dangerous. _________________ Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 497
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: |
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https://youtu.be/bbte1tQma3E?t=61 (A highlight of throws by Rafeal Agheav: widely considered a candidate for Greatest of All Time among WKF competitors)
That rule was, thankfully, changed in 2017. It might have occurred earlier, but 2017 is, as far as I know, the last major change the rules regarding throws had and I recall the foot rule being extant in 2015 due to a controversial call. That it ever existed is a little silly, and if the concern was safety, generally speaking, you are better are barring slams and spiking.
Common throws in karate competition, when speaking of the WKF, are usually grounded in a sweep. Either outside or inner reaping throw, or the occasional cross-buttock. Sweeps partnered with a leg-catch are a common sight. The "pulsing" common in such competition makes such throws quite effective, and so I doubt we shall see the types of throws diversify any further.
Outside of the WKF it really depends on the competition format. Bogu Kumite some times allows take-downs, and other times it does not. Light or controlled contact varies from organisation to organisation: some allow sweeps but not throws. Some allow throws from catching the legs, but others will have any limb control be illegal. Some forbid clashes entirely, and so throwing is, in spirit, illegal. One of those things where there is not really a golden rule. _________________ R. Keith Williams
A Rarely Used Blog:
An Uncertain Path |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16386
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:08 am Post subject: |
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I suppose that the best thing to do before attending any tournament is to fully read and understand the Rules of said tournament. Some tournaments don't allow throws of any type for whatever their reasons might me. Better to know beforehand than finding out the hard way.
_________________ **Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Tepul
White Belt
Joined: 05 Jan 2020
Posts: 13
Styles: Shotokan, Taido, Kamasutra
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I am doing/teaching Bogu karate in Japan. (Full contact Shotokan with protective gear).
In our dojo, we have several levels of kumite.
- Full contact point system: like normal ippon kumite, but you can hit full power. No low kicks, no throws, no elbows/knees
- Adults kumite (black belts) Knees/elbows, low kicks allowed. Throws are partially allowed (no uchimata or seioi nage)
- Veteran kumite (black belts): Everything goes, kicks, punches, throws, newaza, headbutts, flying kicks, kamehameha _________________ 3rd Degree Shotokan Karate |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Wado Heretic wrote: |
https://youtu.be/bbte1tQma3E?t=61 (A highlight of throws by Rafeal Agheav: widely considered a candidate for Greatest of All Time among WKF competitors)
That rule was, thankfully, changed in 2017. It might have occurred earlier, but 2017 is, as far as I know, the last major change the rules regarding throws had and I recall the foot rule being extant in 2015 due to a controversial call. That it ever existed is a little silly, and if the concern was safety, generally speaking, you are better are barring slams and spiking.
Common throws in karate competition, when speaking of the WKF, are usually grounded in a sweep. Either outside or inner reaping throw, or the occasional cross-buttock. Sweeps partnered with a leg-catch are a common sight. The "pulsing" common in such competition makes such throws quite effective, and so I doubt we shall see the types of throws diversify any further.
Outside of the WKF it really depends on the competition format. Bogu Kumite some times allows take-downs, and other times it does not. Light or controlled contact varies from organisation to organisation: some allow sweeps but not throws. Some allow throws from catching the legs, but others will have any limb control be illegal. Some forbid clashes entirely, and so throwing is, in spirit, illegal. One of those things where there is not really a golden rule. |
He's so quick, and he sets the throws up so well. _________________ www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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aurik
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 490
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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These vids are a bit dated, but Andre Tippett (All-Pro linebacker with the New England Patriots, and 6th dan Uechi-Ryu) is a big fan of the front leg sweep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5OH8uSt_x4. Nothing fancy but it works! I generally open with a mawashi-geri to the side, but once sparring starts back up again, I need to work on the front leg sweep. _________________ My Journey (So Far)
Shuri-Ryu 1996-1997 - Gokyu
Judo 1996-1997 - Yonkyu
Uechi-Ryu 2018-Present - Nidan
ABS Bladesmith 2021-Present - Apprentice |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: |
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aurik wrote: |
These vids are a bit dated, but Andre Tippett (All-Pro linebacker with the New England Patriots, and 6th dan Uechi-Ryu) is a big fan of the front leg sweep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5OH8uSt_x4. Nothing fancy but it works! I generally open with a mawashi-geri to the side, but once sparring starts back up again, I need to work on the front leg sweep. |
That was awesome. Such control out of a big man. Those opponents, having to deal with the strength, speed, size, and overall athletic ability of a pro athlete like that....phew, what a tall order.
I really wish we could do sweeps in TKD. My dad said years ago, back in the "blood and guts" days of TKD, in the competitions he went to, they did allow sweeps, strikes to the head, and even groin kicks were legal targets.
Incidentally, speaking about pro (or former) pro athletes, Herschel Walker, former Heisman Trophy winner and NFL running back, is 5th dan black belt in TKD. _________________ www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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