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Karateforfun3
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Joined: 19 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:14 pm    Post subject: Are throws legal in karate tournaments? Reply with quote

I know sweeps are legal in full contact (pretty sure not in semi contact though), but are any type of throws legal in traditional karate tournaments? (Either semi or full contact?) Are they ever used, and if so, which ones are common? Thanks a bunch.
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aurik
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Joined: 08 Nov 2016
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Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In WKF rules, throws are legal as long as you follow them up with a legal striking technique. In fact, if you do succeed in sweeping/throwing your opponent to the ground and scoring on them, it's worth 3 points, the same as a head-level kick.

Of course, if you throw an opponent and injure him in the process, you will most likely be penalized.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aurik wrote:
In WKF rules, throws are legal as long as you follow them up with a legal striking technique. In fact, if you do succeed in sweeping/throwing your opponent to the ground and scoring on them, it's worth 3 points, the same as a head-level kick.

Of course, if you throw an opponent and injure him in the process, you will most likely be penalized.

Solid post!!



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Wastelander
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Joined: 18 Oct 2010
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aurik wrote:
In WKF rules, throws are legal as long as you follow them up with a legal striking technique. In fact, if you do succeed in sweeping/throwing your opponent to the ground and scoring on them, it's worth 3 points, the same as a head-level kick.

Of course, if you throw an opponent and injure him in the process, you will most likely be penalized.


According to the WKF judging class I took some years ago, the throws are not allowed to lift both of the opponent's feet off the floor (other than sweeping someone who is kicking), because it makes the throw "dangerous." The problem I found with this, in practice, is that people proceeded to do hip throws incorrectly, making them more dangerous, rather than less dangerous.
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Wado Heretic
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/bbte1tQma3E?t=61 (A highlight of throws by Rafeal Agheav: widely considered a candidate for Greatest of All Time among WKF competitors)

That rule was, thankfully, changed in 2017. It might have occurred earlier, but 2017 is, as far as I know, the last major change the rules regarding throws had and I recall the foot rule being extant in 2015 due to a controversial call. That it ever existed is a little silly, and if the concern was safety, generally speaking, you are better are barring slams and spiking.

Common throws in karate competition, when speaking of the WKF, are usually grounded in a sweep. Either outside or inner reaping throw, or the occasional cross-buttock. Sweeps partnered with a leg-catch are a common sight. The "pulsing" common in such competition makes such throws quite effective, and so I doubt we shall see the types of throws diversify any further.

Outside of the WKF it really depends on the competition format. Bogu Kumite some times allows take-downs, and other times it does not. Light or controlled contact varies from organisation to organisation: some allow sweeps but not throws. Some allow throws from catching the legs, but others will have any limb control be illegal. Some forbid clashes entirely, and so throwing is, in spirit, illegal. One of those things where there is not really a golden rule.
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose that the best thing to do before attending any tournament is to fully read and understand the Rules of said tournament. Some tournaments don't allow throws of any type for whatever their reasons might me. Better to know beforehand than finding out the hard way.



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Tepul
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Joined: 05 Jan 2020
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Styles: Shotokan, Taido, Kamasutra

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am doing/teaching Bogu karate in Japan. (Full contact Shotokan with protective gear).

In our dojo, we have several levels of kumite.

- Full contact point system: like normal ippon kumite, but you can hit full power. No low kicks, no throws, no elbows/knees

- Adults kumite (black belts) Knees/elbows, low kicks allowed. Throws are partially allowed (no uchimata or seioi nage)

- Veteran kumite (black belts): Everything goes, kicks, punches, throws, newaza, headbutts, flying kicks, kamehameha
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
https://youtu.be/bbte1tQma3E?t=61 (A highlight of throws by Rafeal Agheav: widely considered a candidate for Greatest of All Time among WKF competitors)

That rule was, thankfully, changed in 2017. It might have occurred earlier, but 2017 is, as far as I know, the last major change the rules regarding throws had and I recall the foot rule being extant in 2015 due to a controversial call. That it ever existed is a little silly, and if the concern was safety, generally speaking, you are better are barring slams and spiking.

Common throws in karate competition, when speaking of the WKF, are usually grounded in a sweep. Either outside or inner reaping throw, or the occasional cross-buttock. Sweeps partnered with a leg-catch are a common sight. The "pulsing" common in such competition makes such throws quite effective, and so I doubt we shall see the types of throws diversify any further.

Outside of the WKF it really depends on the competition format. Bogu Kumite some times allows take-downs, and other times it does not. Light or controlled contact varies from organisation to organisation: some allow sweeps but not throws. Some allow throws from catching the legs, but others will have any limb control be illegal. Some forbid clashes entirely, and so throwing is, in spirit, illegal. One of those things where there is not really a golden rule.


He's so quick, and he sets the throws up so well.
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aurik
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Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These vids are a bit dated, but Andre Tippett (All-Pro linebacker with the New England Patriots, and 6th dan Uechi-Ryu) is a big fan of the front leg sweep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5OH8uSt_x4. Nothing fancy but it works! I generally open with a mawashi-geri to the side, but once sparring starts back up again, I need to work on the front leg sweep.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aurik wrote:
These vids are a bit dated, but Andre Tippett (All-Pro linebacker with the New England Patriots, and 6th dan Uechi-Ryu) is a big fan of the front leg sweep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5OH8uSt_x4. Nothing fancy but it works! I generally open with a mawashi-geri to the side, but once sparring starts back up again, I need to work on the front leg sweep.
That was awesome. Such control out of a big man. Those opponents, having to deal with the strength, speed, size, and overall athletic ability of a pro athlete like that....phew, what a tall order.

I really wish we could do sweeps in TKD. My dad said years ago, back in the "blood and guts" days of TKD, in the competitions he went to, they did allow sweeps, strikes to the head, and even groin kicks were legal targets.

Incidentally, speaking about pro (or former) pro athletes, Herschel Walker, former Heisman Trophy winner and NFL running back, is 5th dan black belt in TKD.
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