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Prototype
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:38 am    Post subject: Arguments for/against defining boxing as a martial art Reply with quote

On Google, martial arts is defined as:

noun
various sports, which originated chiefly in Japan, Korea, and China as forms of self-defence or attack, such as judo, karate, and kendo.


This is a poor definition since Karate did not originate as a sport, and martial art and combat sport are distinct(or else this thread wouldn't exist). For the purposes of the discussion, let's define martial arts something along these lines

"Combat arts applicable for self defence."

I will go through a list of points why boxing, as traditionally practised, may or may not be concidered a martial art based on the definition above, based on its training culture. I will of course exclude instructors who are purposely defining boxing as a martial art and teaching it in their home-cooked self defence curriculum.

1.Argument against: "Boxing only teaches punches and dynamic movement. Self defence encompasses significant more elements than this".

Argument For: Limited curriculum is nothing unique to boxing. Traditional Karate styles lacks both learning to do submissions as well as defending against them. Knowing how to defend against a submission might very well be a self defence scenario in todays MMA culture.

2. Argument against: Boxing instructors only teach tactics applicable in the sport, some of which may backfire in a self defence type of a fight.

(Comment): The strongest argument against classifiying boxing gyms as a martial art schools.

Argument for: While some of the boxing tactics (ducking, bobbing and weaving) may be counterproductive in a real fight, they could also work. No boxer is obligated to use those tactics in the ring either. They are simply tools learned. Similarly a Karate stylist may learn to do things in free style kumite that is counterproductive in a real fight. Thus, teaching sport tactic that may be ill-adivice on the streeet is against nothing unique to boxing.


3. Argument against: Boxing does not teach technical self defence, martial arts schools do.

Argument for: Boxing teaches a skill set applicable for self defence. Self defence teachings are highly controversial due to the nature of the beast. It is not possible to realistically reacreate a self defence situation. Matters of psychology which takes presidence over anything else can not be recreated in a training situation, nor can it be "taught" how to respond. Everybody reacts differently, and you will never know how until confronted with the situation.

4. Arguments against: Boxing has no founder(s) and henceforth no philosophy.

Arguments for: Having a founder and philosophy to the art is a questionable critera, since the definition of a martial art should be based in combat applicability.

For the discussion: Do you define boxing among the martial arts or is it simply a sport with effective martial arts element in them?

I am leaning towards classifiying boxing as martial arts. While everything is sport geared, that does not exclude it from being an effective combat art, and as have been already pointed out, traditional martial arts like Karate don't cover all aspects of fighting, even though they cover more than boxing,
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TJ-Jitsu
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I care less about what it's called. No other style teaches you to use your hands better. Call it what you will but it knocks "martial artists" out...
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imh...

Boxing is a MA!! It's a MA because that's what I believe it to be!! Flip it, twist it, bend it, or whatever fits ones fancy, boxing is a form of MA, as I perceive it to be.

Boxing has the elements in it that makes me believe that boxing is a form of a MA!! After all, boxing teaches skills that can be used for someone to defend themselves.

Nonetheless, this debate will live on for an eternity!!



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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boxing was trained for "civilian combat" many years ago, in ways in which we would consider applicable to self-defense training. It has evolved considerably into the sport of present-day Boxing, but it is still applicable to self-defense. Learning to strike with the hands, defend with the hands and with movement of the feet and body (some might call that tai-sabaki) is all applicable to self-defense.

I call Boxing a Martial Art, as I do with Wrestling.
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Prototype
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Boxing was trained for "civilian combat" many years ago, in ways in which we would consider applicable to self-defense training. It has evolved considerably into the sport of present-day Boxing, but it is still applicable to self-defense. Learning to strike with the hands, defend with the hands and with movement of the feet and body (some might call that tai-sabaki) is all applicable to self-defense.

I call Boxing a Martial Art, as I do with Wrestling.


Boxers generally don't. Sugar Ray Leonard and Andre Ward said mcgregor might use some of his martial arts movement against Mayweather. They clearly concidered themselves sport athletes, rather than martial artists
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Spartacus Maximus
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boxing has a lot in common with martial arts, but it is and still been categorized and considered a sport for most of its modern history. Everything in boxing revolves around, and is geared towards one-on-one competition in a ring.

It assumes the opponent will be an even match and that the bouts will follow a clear set of rules. This isn’t to say that boxing techniques or concepts cannot be used effectively outside of the sports context, but sports and competition is the main focus of training.

Very few if any boxers actually train for a purpose other than the ring. Fewer still consider what they do as anything other than a sport. The general view of boxing reflects this because wherever boxing is offered as an activity, it is always listed under “combat/contact sports” or, more commonly just “sports”.
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