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chickadee
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 11

Styles: goju ryu karate

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Asked to compose my own kata for the test Reply with quote

I've been asked to compose my own kata for the test (2nd kyu going to 1st). It should contain at least 50 moves. I've tried to come up with a meaningful sequence of techniques and transitions between them but I'm still short of 50. And I'm also not sure what I should concentrate on when composing a kata for a test. Should I demonstrate the most advanced techniques I know? Should I ensure it's practical and one can base bunkai on it? Is it OK to reuse sub-sequences from the classical kata I know?

Our dojo is very small (only a handful of students) and to my memory nobody else has been asked to compose their own kata for the test.

Any advice? How people make up their own kata?
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bassaiguy
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 164
Location: Maine, USA
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was practicing competition karate back in the early 90s I was asked to do this for a brown belt test, as well. It caused me to think about what I was really doing and I ended switching to traditional karate. That was my choice, I'm not criticizing schools and students who feel otherwise, but I couldn't figure out how I was supposed to construct a meaningful kata when I didn't even know the entire syllabus of our core style.

My suggestion if you want to tackle the challenge of designing a kata is to practice what in education is called "backwards design". Start with the end result in mind, you have defeated your opponent, and work backwards from there - what techniques would you have had to employ to defeat the specific attacks an enemy is likely to confront you with? Then, you can reverse that process and go from the initial attack to the conclusion. This is probably tougher if you haven't ever been confronted under pressure.

I have not designed a kata even though I have fought in and out of the ring. Like you said, it's a pretty daunting task.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That actually sounds fun. I would view it as a blend of tradition and future told in story format. We have:
-intro (set the stage)
-few basic details (some traditional dynamic seguences)
-immediate struggle (2-3) that challenge the protagonist
-then a lull as the real challenge builds (some more traditional sequences)
-then the finale with where the protagonist barely defeats the antagonist using all his wits cunning (read as your most challenging and dynamic moves, both traditional and new)

I would use some immediately recognizable sub-sequences, maybe just a couple of the more dynamic ones,
and a couple of some more basic as well to sprinkle in. Look at some of the team kata in competition. They are really dramatic. Beyond that I would choose stuff I knew I could do well, but also stuff to challenge yourself. It has been my experience when a superior asks you to assess yourself, or create your own task, they want you to challenge yourself as well. Try to think of it as a movie, or story.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But then, maybe I am unknowingly talking out my butt. I am only yellow belt.
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"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16386
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to KF, chickadee; glad that you're here!!

Solid posts, all!! Here's my two-cents, if I may,

During my tournament days, I would often signed up for the Creative Division per current rank. I struggled quite a lot at first because I didn't know how to create an effective kata filled with effectiveness throughout. I went for flash at first, and that earned me many last places, with a few discussions with that tournaments arbitrator.

You see, I knew the kata's within our curriculum per current rank, and for me, that was difficult to separate that which was within me and with that which wasn't in me, hence, a kata that I created.

Then doubt entered in the face of..."Just who do I think I am that I think that I can create an effective kata?!?!" Then, and finally, that AHA moment came...

Keep
It
Simple
Student

The kata's within our style are effective because they're simple; even those that are advanced. Casting away that which was flashy and ineffective was easy once I took myself out of the equation. Building a building...building a car...building just about anything that's effective means that said designer keep it simple, even in the most advanced technology.

Body mechanics are irrefutable concerning their effectiveness: either it works or it doesn't!! Trial and error!! For every successful kata, research must be applied. And in that application, one must be brutally honest with oneself, without any ambiguity whatsoever!!

That's where Bunkai can help! It's not required, however, it shouldn't be ignored!! Anything created, must be researched, and that means that it must be analyzed to the nth degree. If it, whatever it is, is to be believed, it must be believable to yourself first, than the audience lastly.

Once I got out of the way, the results were a success, not only with many Grand Championships, but in the realm of effectiveness, and that effectiveness was my true reward.

No, for me, KISS was applicable in creating a winning kata. Yet, that winning kata, if it's purpose is true and honorable, can be also used during a testing cycle, if demanded by ones Sensei.

Relax...let the kata take care of itself!! Btw, VIDEO TAPE it so that you can see what it looks like, and make corrections accordingly, and this is where one must be brutally honest with oneself.

Above all things, seek out the advice and feedback from your Sensei, when it's appropriate!! Ask your Sensei to critic that which you're creating, but be warned, your Sensei's critic might be harsh, but it'll be truthful.

Good luck...train hard...train seriously!!



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DWx
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting requirement. I guess it shows the Sensei some insight into how much you understand and how you interpret your style.

Have you been given any guidance as to what the kata should contain?

I'd imagine you'd need a spectrum of things covering the basic through to your current grade to demonstrate your understanding?
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chickadee
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 11

Styles: goju ryu karate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everybody for the great advice. I'll reply to some of the comments to clarify my situation and, maybe, invite more conversation. I apologize in advance if I mess up any of the quotes as I'm learning how to use the forum.

bassaiguy wrote:
When I was practicing competition karate back in the early 90s I was asked to do this for a brown belt test, as well. It caused me to think about what I was really doing and I ended switching to traditional karate.
I'm not doing any competitions and my Sensei has never asked us to participate in them. I'm practicing goju ryu, which is considered to be quite traditional karate as far as I know.

bassaiguy wrote:
My suggestion if you want to tackle the challenge of designing a kata is to practice what in education is called "backwards design". Start with the end result in mind, you have defeated your opponent, and work backwards from there - what techniques would you have had to employ to defeat the specific attacks an enemy is likely to confront you with?
Somehow I've never thought about kata as a "story of a battle" that has a beginning and an end. More like a bundle of related techniques and transitions that are taught this way to match student's progress through the curriculum. Might not be a good analogy, but if you think about learning music, kata for me was more like scales than a song... I'm not saying my understanding is correct. I just haven't thought about this before and my Sensei hasn't talked to us about it either.
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chickadee
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 11

Styles: goju ryu karate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LLLEARNER wrote:
That actually sounds fun. I would view it as a blend of tradition and future told in story format. (...) Try to think of it as a movie, or story.
Thank you for your enthusiastic support. As I'm explaining above, I haven't thought about a kata as a story. I'll ponder about it.
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chickadee
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 11

Styles: goju ryu karate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
The kata's within our style are effective because they're simple; even those that are advanced. Casting away that which was flashy and ineffective was easy once I took myself out of the equation. (...)
That's where Bunkai can help! It's not required, however, it shouldn't be ignored!!
I wholeheartedly agree with you that kata should be simple and practical. Though Sensei hasn't asked me to come up with Bunkai for it, for every move I do I visualize what application it could have. What bothers me is the sheer length of it: 50 moves. I'm finding it to be an awfully long kata.

sensei8 wrote:
Btw, VIDEO TAPE it so that you can see what it looks like, and make corrections accordingly, and this is where one must be brutally honest with oneself.
Thank you for the idea! I video taped how I do traditional katas before to analyze my mistakes but for some reason haven't thought about it for my own kata!

sensei8 wrote:
Above all things, seek out the advice and feedback from your Sensei, when it's appropriate!! Ask your Sensei to critic that which you're creating, but be warned, your Sensei's critic might be harsh, but it'll be truthful.
Ah. That's another bit of a problem I don't know how to overcome. When I initially asked Sensei about how I should approach composing the kata he basically said: "Just do it". I've also failed the test for 1 kyu twice (a year ago and this June) and I'm afraid to ask him about my kata in case he takes it as me trying to hint that I want to test again. To be completely honest I'm afraid to ask Sensei about anything. When I did in the past he would look at me as if I was a Martian and say: "Don't talk. Keep training." I'm sure I might have asked wrong questions but I have no idea which question are the right ones.

Last edited by chickadee on Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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chickadee
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 11

Styles: goju ryu karate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Have you been given any guidance as to what the kata should contain?
None.

DWx wrote:
I'd imagine you'd need a spectrum of things covering the basic through to your current grade to demonstrate your understanding?
I don't know but this is how I was approaching it with the constraint that the transitions between the techniques should be, so to say, logical. Other people in the posts above suggest to think about the kata as a story. That's a new point of view for me.
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