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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Bad Form In kata Practice Reply with quote

Are you having problems with bad form while practicing your katas?

If so, what seems to be the problem?
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
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Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2730
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's always something that's not quite right--nobody is perfect, and nobody can perform a kata exactly the same way every time. Fatigue, soreness, injuries, any number of health issues, lapse in focus, etc. Lots of things can cause you to lose form. I have a tendency to do some movements too low as my shoulders get fatigued, especially if I'm working a lot of Kusanku Sho or Passai Sho. Sometimes my neurological issue gives me balance and motion sickness issues, so I can't move quickly, or have to alter my stances to keep my balance. Sometimes my brain just leaves me, and any number of things can happen
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Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
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Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16386
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From time to time, especially if one considers just how long I've been on the floor, while executing any given Kata, I'll be overcome with feeling quite mundane. Continued dwelling in the mundane births inadequacy across the board in any given Kata; bad form creeps outwardly like a fungus.

I don't mean to, nor do I plan on it, either. It just happens, out of nowhere!!

I'll fight it off because that, for me, is unacceptable to experience. Walking off the floor, for me, is the wrong thing to do because that means that the fight was won by the overwhelming feeling, and not of my own doing.

Shugyo has to win this feeling because if I don't suck it up and shake this mundane feeling, then the Kata, for that very moment within me has died. That is the worse thing to do because if that happens, then the Kata loses it's importance, and that just ain't going to benefit me at all!!

I don't walk off the floor in the hopes that I'll shake this mundane feeling because to do so, walking off the floor for the hopes of putting a fresh pair of eyes on the problem, the I've lost the fight, as well!!

Losing the fight, to me, isn't an acceptable option!!

Why would I have these feelings of mundane towards Kata, any Kata? After just over 5 decades on the floor, I've executed each Kata so much, the Kata, at that very distinct moment, is the same old thing and bores the heck out of me. I know this is wrong because Kata is the heart of Karate-do, and without it, Karate-do is dead!!

How many times can I tie my shoe laces, for example, before I become bored of this most basic of functionalities, no matter how important that it might be, and it is important, otherwise, I'd trip over my own shoe laces.

I take as many deep breaths as I need; clearing my head. Reminding me of Mizu No Kokoro and Tsuki No Kororo. Revisiting the reasons why I'm on the floor executing any one given Kata, and the most fundamental, as well as important reason of them all is attaining that MA betterment within me. To do this...

I focus on one thing, once again...

Bunkai, and the seek of it, especially the Oyo of the Bunkai. That lies, and awaits to be discovered only one way...EXECUTE THE KATA OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER...and then some.

It's THAT Bunkai that I seek and the only way to discover it, I MUST EXECUTE KATA!! No other way to find it...no other way to appreciate it...no other way but forward...no other way to improve my MA betterment...no other way to shake off the mundane but by executing the Kata with focus and determination, and not by whining over the darn thing.

Suck it up...SHUGYO!!

Shut up, Bob, execute the Kata, and with resolve!!




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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I have a problem on the 270 degree turns to the back. I don't get my leg far enough over to be in a back stance. I am working on it though. I am taking some advise from recoil junkie. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

http://recoiljunkie.com/no-really-slow-is-smooth-smooth-is-fast/
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16386
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LLLEARNER wrote:
Sometimes I have a problem on the 270 degree turns to the back. I don't get my leg far enough over to be in a back stance. I am working on it though. I am taking some advise from recoil junkie. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

http://recoiljunkie.com/no-really-slow-is-smooth-smooth-is-fast/

The one thing that has to be remembered when one considers the 270 turn, or what I call, the Big Turn, is the follow through of the leg.

Many times, the leg isn't traveling far enough, to its conclusion, because that leg is placed down to soon...WAY TO SOON!! Keeping the hips level throughout the entire turn is vital for the smoothness to be effective.

Controlling that particular leg is tantamount for the Big Turn to be successful, aka, effective. The practitioner controls when and where that leg comes down, and not the other way. Don't set the leg down until it has to be, not sooner.

You control that leg, so control the darn thing by not setting it down until it has to be, and YOU CONTROL THAT, not the leg controlling you.



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LLLEARNER
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much. I have to say since I started, I have improved. I can do it without falling over. Now it is just a matter of retraining the bad out. I will also focus more on keeping the hips level.
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"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LLLEARNER wrote:
Thanks very much. I have to say since I started, I have improved. I can do it without falling over. Now it is just a matter of retraining the bad out. I will also focus more on keeping the hips level.


Often this is caused by trying to move to quickly or forcing the movements.

Some movements are foreign and because of this there become forced. The key is practice and more practice until it becomes natural. Think of an infant trying to walk for the first time. The leg muscles, joints and tendons are not accustomed to this action so the balance is not there and thus it is foreign. The more you do something the more it becomes a natural movement for the body. The tendons are stretched, muscled become accustomed and the build to support the joints. Balance is achieved and the movement becomes second nature.

Don't try to force it or move too quickly. Practice the movement until it becomes a natural movement and you will be able to do it without thinking about where the foot lands and how far the leg has to travel.

Also, and of course depending on your style, do not over extend. The more natural the stance the more balance there is and the easier to achieve the movement.

I would suggest figuring out exactly where the leg must be and the foot must land and have a partner put a piece of tape on the ground for both feet. You can practice this until your foot hits the exact placement every time so that muscle memory is developed. Then you can throw the tape away and move on to the next movement that you are having difficulty with.

That would be my advice for what it's worth.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is also a propreceptive aesthetic aspect to katas, that might well be worth exploring.

In other words, practicing a kata as a performance art, as a thing of beauty to see and feel.

If a person can feel the beauty of each movement and how they connect harmoniously, then perhaps the common denominator of the kata is better based on feeling the movements rather than forcing them.

As martial artists, the beauty of things contained in katas are also practical.

If a kata feels right then it is right, on the contrary when something goes wrong, we feel it also.

Each kata is interpreted differently by each individual and each time a kata is performed by an individual there will always be something different about it, usually on how the performer is feeling.

Another perspective, have a trick that I would play on my self, that I found very helpful. The trick was when doing something in which I'm not good at, practiced at, talented at, I would tackle the situation as an artist.

As artists usually pay attention to details and quality, also creative problem solving.

Artists usually try to make boring things look interesting.

Spice up your kata movements with interesting timing: fast and abrupt, deep and tall, smooth and sharp, anything other than dull!

Without overdosing this subject, katas need to look and feel interesting and very important to the person performing them, other wise the viewers will become more bored, than a drawn out church service preaching on the values of being a good listener.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
LLLEARNER wrote:
Thanks very much. I have to say since I started, I have improved. I can do it without falling over. Now it is just a matter of retraining the bad out. I will also focus more on keeping the hips level.


Often this is caused by trying to move to quickly or forcing the movements.

Some movements are foreign and because of this there become forced. The key is practice and more practice until it becomes natural. Think of an infant trying to walk for the first time. The leg muscles, joints and tendons are not accustomed to this action so the balance is not there and thus it is foreign. The more you do something the more it becomes a natural movement for the body. The tendons are stretched, muscled become accustomed and the build to support the joints. Balance is achieved and the movement becomes second nature.

Don't try to force it or move too quickly. Practice the movement until it becomes a natural movement and you will be able to do it without thinking about where the foot lands and how far the leg has to travel.

Also, and of course depending on your style, do not over extend. The more natural the stance the more balance there is and the easier to achieve the movement.

I would suggest figuring out exactly where the leg must be and the foot must land and have a partner put a piece of tape on the ground for both feet. You can practice this until your foot hits the exact placement every time so that muscle memory is developed. Then you can throw the tape away and move on to the next movement that you are having difficulty with.

That would be my advice for what it's worth.


Thanks for the advise. I will use it.
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"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Often for me, it comes down to balance, especially when spinning and kicking. So I try to slow it down and parse it all out. Slow is smooth, smooth is faster kind of approach.
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