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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2134


PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Ballet vs Karate Reply with quote

Have you considered the differences between Ballet and Karate?

They both use all the same muscles to move with, the only real difference is Ballet is not used for fighting whereas karate is?

Some belive Ballet was a fighting style in the past and a sword was used in conjunction with its graceful moves; does this seem possible?

Many coaches from different sports have turned to Ballet for inspiration. Trying to instill in to players to be more graceful or move with (at the very least) a little finesse; is this a viable idea?

Could some Ballet training help a person that is serious about Karate?

There is alot of talk about cross training between martial art styles, how about cross training with Ballet and Karate?

Perhaps taking the idea one step further and creating a hybrid ballet/karate style, is not out of the question?

There are martial artists that borrow from ballet, using many of the highly demanding conditioning exercises and incorporate them in to freestyle katas; is this ethical?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure why it would be unethical. As far as ballet adding benefit to MA training, I imagine it would do so. Although lots of MA training places importance on flexibility, I think ballet places more importance on it. I think some of the ways they stretch and move could be incorporated into the MAs, and it could be helpful.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2134


PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
I'm not sure why it would be unethical. As far as ballet adding benefit to MA training, I imagine it would do so. Although lots of MA training places importance on flexibility, I think ballet places more importance on it. I think some of the ways they stretch and move could be incorporated into the MAs, and it could be helpful.
I believe incorporating ballet conditioning techniques and understanding their methodologies are worthwhile investigating for martial artists.

A few areas that martial artists can benefit from ballet are:

The in-depth attention to body structure and alignment, correct use of muscles, joints, ligaments and tendons.

The attention spent on strength and balance, in particular "Ballet extensions" which is raising one leg high for at least four seconds.

The Ballet hip turnout, which prevents knee and ankle injuries, by utilizing the body mechanics of the hips, ball and socket.

Ankles and toes conditioning to developed extraordinary strength in the lower extremities.

There is also ballet gracefulness and ease that martial artists can draw from.

Ballet dancers are switched on to the continually conditioning mindset, something hobby martial artists could benefit from.


The unethical aspect I was referring to was with freestyle katas. As yes, ballet does make katas look interesting, they do how ever lack in what katas were designed for, as in self-defense applications.

Also martial artists competing against fusion type katas could be unequipped to compete against ballerinas.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that some of it could be useful. But I also think that if a Martial Artist spent his life not ever touching ballet, he wouldn't be missing out on all that much.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
I agree that some of it could be useful. But I also think that if a Martial Artist spent his life not ever touching ballet, he wouldn't be missing out on all that much.
You could be right about not missing that much bushido_man96.

Then on the other side, there is no harm in looking into another world such as Ballet for learning how other styles of movement works.

Never will I want to do Ballet, but they certainty have ways of doing things in the conditioning Dept. that improves my martial art capabilities.

They in Ballet have their fair share of injuries just like martial artists but not due to opponents, theirs is usually accidental, due to performing movements incorrectly.

I have almost pulled my hip our of its socket in one occasion while doing extreme kicking. If I had known about Ballet hip conditioning exercises, this accident could have been prevented.

Much of the Ballet conditioning exercises are for preventative porpoises, as well as enhancing performances.

It would not be very appealing, to see x crippled Ballet dancers roaming the streets as posture is an important feature for them, whereas martial artist that use techniques that eventually destroy their knees and hips could have prevented it, due to being more aware of human body mechanics, which is something Ballet dancers need to be aware of constantly.

Martial artist would benefit from understanding the Ballet term called "Sickling" on ways to avoid it.

My viewpoints are open to using many types of dance to enhance martial arts, not only Ballet, to discover and incorporate what works from whatever place possible.

Are martial artists open minded enough to look beyond their own ruggedness and to balance themselves out with some softness and gracefulness once in awhile?
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Quote:
Are martial artists open minded enough to look beyond their own ruggedness and to balance themselves out with some softness and gracefulness once in awhile?

That's difficult for me to answer because I can't speak intelligently about other MAist, especially those I've never trained with.

Generally speaking, from what I've experienced, I'd say...nope!! Very few MAist that I've known on and off the floor aren't all that open minded enough to train, let alone, consider ballet to balance their MA training. I've heard MAist speak about both sides of ballet with interest, but beyond any discussions, they've only had a far-away interest, and nothing else.

Either ego or not having done any research about ballet or whatever else, have kept them off any ballet floor.



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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other thing to consider is how much time do others have to give to both? Time you spend doing ballet techniques is time spent away from doing MA techniques for self-defense and what-not. In the end, I think it really comes down to how much time you have to spread around to do all the extra training (not to mention resources).
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
The other thing to consider is how much time do others have to give to both? Time you spend doing ballet techniques is time spent away from doing MA techniques for self-defense and what-not. In the end, I think it really comes down to how much time you have to spread around to do all the extra training (not to mention resources).
The idea I have is to understand ballet to enhance a martial artist and not to take valuable time away by learning none viable techniques or movements.

There are many conditioning exercises that ballet dancers already have in common with martial artists, that is a bonus in itself.

Bruce Lee used a bar when training similar to ballet as his was metal and not wooden.

Barr work for martial artists for strengthening, posture and balance is common place in ballet studios but not so much in dojos.

I seek out welded handrails in public places for practicing with, a wooden barr such as used in a ballet studio, wouldn't be strong enough for my purposes.

Bruce Lee's kicking techniques can be learned and improved upon by practicing with a metal horizontal bar.

Another thing (all) martial artists can borrow from the ballet world is flexibility techniques.

By learning to stretch individual muscles instead of in groups; then strengthening specific muscle groups when conditioning them

By becoming more sophisticated in all aspects of training and performing; so as to become an intelligent, effecient fighters and not like many muscle headed brutes, that have more in common with the animal kingdom.
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pinklady6000
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 04 Jun 2017
Posts: 74
Location: sheffield
Styles: wrestling, shinkicking, jkd

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
The other thing to consider is how much time do others have to give to both? Time you spend doing ballet techniques is time spent away from doing MA techniques for self-defense and what-not. In the end, I think it really comes down to how much time you have to spread around to do all the extra training (not to mention resources).
The idea I have is to understand ballet to enhance a martial artist and not to take valuable time away by learning none viable techniques or movements.

There are many conditioning exercises that ballet dancers already have in common with martial artists, that is a bonus in itself.

Bruce Lee used a bar when training similar to ballet as his was metal and not wooden.

Barr work for martial artists for strengthening, posture and balance is common place in ballet studios but not so much in dojos.

I seek out welded handrails in public places for practicing with, a wooden barr such as used in a ballet studio, wouldn't be strong enough for my purposes.

Bruce Lee's kicking techniques can be learned and improved upon by practicing with a metal horizontal bar.

Another thing (all) martial artists can borrow from the ballet world is flexibility techniques.

By learning to stretch individual muscles instead of in groups; then strengthening specific muscle groups when conditioning them

By becoming more sophisticated in all aspects of training and performing; so as to become an intelligent, effecient fighters and not like many muscle headed brutes, that have more in common with the animal kingdom.
I agree with everything you have said.
I think ballet is a great supplement to the martial arts, from high kicking in the striking arts to resistance of submissions in grappling.
Look at Summer Glau in the serenity film and Sarah Conner chronicles. Emily Blunt in Die Another Day film. Both have benefited from ballet.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinklady6000 wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
The other thing to consider is how much time do others have to give to both? Time you spend doing ballet techniques is time spent away from doing MA techniques for self-defense and what-not. In the end, I think it really comes down to how much time you have to spread around to do all the extra training (not to mention resources).
The idea I have is to understand ballet to enhance a martial artist and not to take valuable time away by learning none viable techniques or movements.

There are many conditioning exercises that ballet dancers already have in common with martial artists, that is a bonus in itself.

Bruce Lee used a bar when training similar to ballet as his was metal and not wooden.

Barr work for martial artists for strengthening, posture and balance is common place in ballet studios but not so much in dojos.

I seek out welded handrails in public places for practicing with, a wooden barr such as used in a ballet studio, wouldn't be strong enough for my purposes.

Bruce Lee's kicking techniques can be learned and improved upon by practicing with a metal horizontal bar.

Another thing (all) martial artists can borrow from the ballet world is flexibility techniques.

By learning to stretch individual muscles instead of in groups; then strengthening specific muscle groups when conditioning them

By becoming more sophisticated in all aspects of training and performing; so as to become an intelligent, effecient fighters and not like many muscle headed brutes, that have more in common with the animal kingdom.
I agree with everything you have said.
I think ballet is a great supplement to the martial arts, from high kicking in the striking arts to resistance of submissions in grappling.
Look at Summer Glau in the serenity film and Sarah Conner chronicles. Emily Blunt in Die Another Day film. Both have benefited from ballet.

Welcome to KF, pinklady6000; glad that you're here!!

Solid post through and through, pinklady6000; you make some excellent points to consider!!



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