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SteveRoach
White Belt
Joined: 19 Nov 2021
Posts: 2
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:55 pm Post subject: Beginner: tighten fist |
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Hi Guys,
I recently started at a Karate class as a beginner. When I make a fist, the smallest angle I can make between the back of my hand and my index finger is about 140'. I think this should be closer to 90'.
Is there an exercise I can do to help me make a tighter fist?
TIA
Steve |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to KF, steve_roach@hotmail.com; glad that you're here!!
Depends on the fist you're making. There's a regular fist and an old-fashion fist; both are effective, and serve the practitioner quite well.
Regular fist:
1) Start with your hand open and all four fingers fully extended
2) Roll your fingers so that your fingertips come to the top of your palm
3) Continue rolling your fingers until your nails dig into your palm
4) Place your thumb across your fingers between the first and second finger joints so it locks the fist tight
Repetition is the key; the more done, the easier it becomes.
One of the exercises I have my students do is that they put their index finger of the non-punching hand up against their punching hands palm while pointing, THEN follow the 4 steps above, grasping the aforementioned index finger by squeezing. This teaches the hand to close. Once you can close your hand around your index finger tightly, then repeat the 4 steps above without the use of your non-punching index finger.
Old-Fashion:
1) Start with your hand fully open and all fingers extended
2) Fold the last 3 fingers in tightly with your fingertips touching your palm like you’re making a pretend handgun
3) Fold your index finger down but – unlike the other fingers – keep it straight and pointing towards your wrist
4) Fold your thumb across your fingers to lock the fist tight
While effective, this fist takes more training so that it becomes natural.
Griping exercises that strengthen are as simple as wrapping ones hand around things like a towel or a small bar or your index finger or anything that's small enough to grab. Once the hand is trained to understand how to properly make a fist, after all, we train all of our body, that's more than half the battle.
Hope this can help you because you do want that 90 degree you were talking about, and remember to keep your fist and forearm on the same straight plane.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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ashworth
Brown Belt
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 707
Location: UK
Styles: Shotokan, IJR Karate, Iaido, Kobudo
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forum! Great to hear you have started your karate journey, I hope you continue to enjoy it.
Regarding the fist, follow what Sensei8 said and you won’t go far wrong
I used to lay all my fingers down so they are pointing to the wrist (like making a fist without tucking the fingers right in) and then with the palm of the other hand pressing against the knuckles, doesn’t have to be too much pressure just enough to feel resistant.
I also used to do press ups on my fists, but I don’t recommend doing that straight away, I find that helps strengthen the wrists as well, and helps you prepare for making contact with your fist. I do recommend being shown how to do press up on fists properly to ensure you don’t injure yourself though
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Ashley Aldworth
Train together, Learn together, Succeed together... |
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SteveRoach
White Belt
Joined: 19 Nov 2021
Posts: 2
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for those tips - I'll certainly apply them.
Regards |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Like the others, I'd like to welcome you to KF!  Also, welcome to your MA journey! May it be a long one!
In regards to your question in making a fist, have you discussed it with your instructor? It may be beneficial to get in-person feedback, along with what has been written here.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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gspell68
White Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Styles: Shotokan (JKA), Seibukan.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to KF, gspell68; glad that you're here!!
Points to be considered concerning the fists alignments and the like.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Miick 11
Orange Belt
Joined: 01 Jan 2021
Posts: 128
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| gspell68 wrote: |
Get accustomed to punching with the old-school, Okinawan fist.
There’s a reason it’s done that way.
Speaking from experience, if you actually punch a target like a bag or makiwara with any force, you’ll sprain your index finger(s).
Likewise, you should have a slightly “knuckles up” feel to your punch, too, like these guys in the photos or your wrists will fold under hard impact.
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Its fairly easy to observe if you look at your own fist ; make a right fist (as in 1. above ) and look at it from the side , palm down, from the thumb side . One can see ( if you hand is constructed like mine ) the angle around the knuckles between the back of the hand and the finger is mostly 90 degrees , except for the index finger that can not move that far back ( when folded in ) as it comes up against the thumb joint . If you push it in , it will align with the other fingers , but as said above , a hard 'push in' might sprain it .
Now try fist 2. above ( ' Okinawan fist ' ) and look at the alignment , if anything, now the ring finger is slightly in front ( again becasue the side of it is up against the thumb joint ) .
Personally , I have not found it matters much as most punching done like that ( in my style ) is against relatively softer targets , harder targets, I use different parts of hands, knuckles or a different fist position . But if you re going to punch a makiwara or do Tameshiwari , then I highly recommend adjusting your hand accordingly .
Of course conditioning is also important , not just developing callouses ( which I have none of ! ) but the whole hand , bones, tendons, structure ( and f course that should apply to the whole body ) ; I remember once during a break at work, me and boss are leaning against a sandstone block wall . he had done some Shotokan previously and we where always mucking around at work ; throwing surprise techniques at each other .
All of a sudden I looked at him, threw a backfist at his head and 'smack! ' against the wall next to his temple . He looks at me and " Didnt that hurt ? "
" Nope . " But before I could say anything else HE gives it a go ' SPLAT ! ' 'Owwww ... ouch ... you bastard ! "
" Hey ! That wasn't my fault ! " 
One has to 'build up to it ' - heck, I have had the habit of 'slapping walls' with a back fist when I walk down the street ..... Ooooo , maybe over 30 years . All types , including rough stone . No damage , no calluses . Its about knowing exactly how much force you can stand to hit a specific target with . |
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gspell68
White Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Styles: Shotokan (JKA), Seibukan.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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I agree.
There’s a very fine line between conditioning and permanent damage that sets you back for months.
I’ve crossed that line a couple of times!
So, I’ve just kinda cherry picked the way that keeps me out of trouble.
My first job as a teenager was a grocery store stocker and I had a specific duty of breaking down all the stockers boxes for the crusher.
I eventually perfected a middle knuckle punch/peck (nakadaka ken), unintentionally, from opening and breaking down a couple thousand boxes a night.
At the time, it was funny when the other guys tried to imitate it off-the-cuff and just got bloody knuckles and unopened boxes. |
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on the post.
