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ChpsahoySE
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 14 Oct 2020
Posts: 15

Styles: Shorin Ryu TKD Shotokan Jujitsu Muay Thai

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see what your saying. It IS a weird sequence thats part of the kata in my eyes. (call me a conspiracy theorist) Ive always thought that everything in this world is not what it seems or there are some double meanings to certain symbols, gestures etc
A good example is the DOLLAR BILL! LOL.
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Miick 11
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 01 Jan 2021
Posts: 68


PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one is going to offer a bunkai for this move ? ? ?

We do them all the time .

I can think of 3 of our kata which which start in a similar manner ; in that, as mentioned above, " The triangular shape is the result of making a wedge shape with your hands/arms. "

1. Rohai .

2. Kusanku

3. 'Hakatsuru' .

It CAN be a both arms 'flick block ' to deflect a punch upward . If someone comes in NOT in a regular 'oi tsuki' stepping in attack ( maybe they are standing close with feet near together - how you going to tell which hand will attack ? By flinging both up you can deal with that OR it can be a set up for something ( see below ) . Or perhaps the other is attempting a high grab with both their arms .

Also it can be used as a 'charging forward ' action, as also mentioned above . (see below as well )

1. In Rohai the next move is to strike down with a double shuto . This can be both arms up to defect a punch and then a double strike down on the collarbone .

2. In Kusanku it can be a double upward deflection with the outward circular movement that follows with both your arms being double shutos that go from the inside of both their arms (if they go for a high level double handed grab ) or just apply this to one arm on one side against a punch , press down and scoop in pulling their arm/s in while applying pressure to their elbow/s upwards , against their natural movement ( .... a ' front reverse arm bar ' ? ) . As you rise, their arm/s should be trapped and the other should be going up on tippy toes .

OR

Against that old crazy street fighter charging in wildly swinging with a 'hay maker' , surge forward while assuming the wedge position, jamming one forearm against the swinging punch and the other into their neck ( ya gotta pre-empt a bit for this one ) .

OR

as a wedge to drive back or control the others movement at close quarter grappling - you see this all the time in MMA * .

3. Hakatsuru . The hands and arms rise up into this wedge position then the left comes down to the left side , forearm horizontal, elbow back, palm up. The right drops into a shuto across the left fore arm . Then you move ams across to make this position on the apposite side ; right arm back, forearm horizontal palm up , left with a shuto across the right forearm . Then the right does an extended low nukite .

The bunkai can be like any of the above but lends itself well to ;

The other stands close and flings either a left or right , you practice deflecting with either side attacking , being unknown. Then , if they have thrown a left ( or a right, you just reverse the movement in the kata ) , you deflect with a wedge , this leaves your left side nicely expose for them to drive a right into your ribs . You bring your right arm down and around that and hit the 'weak spot ' ( bicep LU 3 or 4 or forearm LU 6 ) with your left shuto on their right and catch it underneath with your right hand . Slide your left down to their wrist and your right up to their elbow as you 'turn behind' them and assume the kata position on your right side . This makes a 'cranking' movement of your hands that results in an arm bar movement that spins them and drives their head down with their arm extended and locked . You then strike nukite behind ear at around GB 12 .

*

@ 2:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juyanT_0zoM&feature=emb_logo

[url][/url]


Last edited by Miick 11 on Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Miick 11
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 01 Jan 2021
Posts: 68


PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChpsahoySE wrote:
I see what your saying. It IS a weird sequence thats part of the kata in my eyes. (call me a conspiracy theorist) Ive always thought that everything in this world is not what it seems or there are some double meanings to certain symbols, gestures etc
A good example is the DOLLAR BILL! LOL.


yeah well ... thats what happens when bunkai is 'lost'

from 3 : 08 to 4 : 40


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh5dz_LBjLg


and Mr I. A . shows a similar bunkai for Kusanku as I explain above for hakatsuru ;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L78fdfGa9D8
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29040
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Mr. Abernethy's applications here, but I like his material in general, and like to apply pieces of it to my TKD forms.
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BeefcaketheBarber
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 21 Dec 2020
Posts: 17

Styles: Shorin Ryu, kickboxing

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive noticed in old pictures, that Gichin Funakoshi puts the tips of his fingers on top of each other as opposed to just having the tip of index fingers meet. basically one hand (fingers) would be covering the the other. With that being said, I can see it as some sort of push back move or to stop or break a 2 handed push or strangle
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Miick 11
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 01 Jan 2021
Posts: 68


PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
I like Mr. Abernethy's applications here, but I like his material in general, and like to apply pieces of it to my TKD forms.


Here is another one (it popped up today on the end of another vid ) with applications like I was suggesting


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUep7ahhjns&feature=emb_rel_end
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29040
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miick 11 wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
I like Mr. Abernethy's applications here, but I like his material in general, and like to apply pieces of it to my TKD forms.


Here is another one (it popped up today on the end of another vid ) with applications like I was suggesting


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUep7ahhjns&feature=emb_rel_end
I rather liked his applications. I liked the use of the "heaven hand" position, and will be keeping it in mind moving forward in classes.

Hehe, I had to come back for an edit....Just running through the ready positions and first few moves of Kwang Gae hyung have brought out a way to drill those as applications! Good stuff!
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