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tatsujin
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Joined: 12 Oct 2021
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Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: beginning move of Kanku dai (hand triangle) occult symbo Reply with quote

Journyman74 wrote:
I know this question is out of left field, but I'll put it out there anyways..

As an experienced Karate practitioner, who has trained with different teachers, I often wondered what the significance of the hand triangle of the kata symbolizes. I've always found the particular part odd as compared to the rest of the traditional katas. Ive read that it translates to "looking at the sky" - other teachers have told me it also means to push somone back or another example is to harvest energy from the sun. With all the symbolism in todays society, Ive hoped that its not related to any of occult practices that you see egyptian sun worshippers or some other hidden meaning... Anyone have any thoughts on this?


I have always seen the opening move to be a bit of a double strike. In most circumstances, the left arm is setting a wedge type of block (that is used as a strike) against an incoming right hand punch (straight or hook) and the right arm is a strike into the head and/or neck area of the attacker.

Within esoteric Mikkyo traditions, the kuji-in (九字印) or Nine Hand Seals does have a mudra or hand seal called zai (在) that looks very similar to this. And there is a similar type of practice that comes from Taoism. Actually, many folks believe the tradition started with the Taoists and it made the trek from China to Japan with other arts and traditions. But, I have serious doubts that it made it into the opening of the kata from there...but who knows I guess.
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smuraix1
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Joined: 06 Jun 2022
Posts: 31

Styles: Shotokan, Shindo jinen Ryu, C.Gracie Lineage jiu jitsu

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I almost spit my coffee out upon coming across this question. Indeed, it is an odd move in the kata, but as the previous responses say, it is all in the "INTENT"

I know people that have a similar problem with YOGA- their reason being, the poses are supposedly spiritual in nature.

never heard about it with karate as kata resembles fighting sequences
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LionsDen
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Joined: 06 May 2022
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s a common thing in king fu which is a large portion of karate’s origins.

You can find the same thing in white crane and golden crane katas, though it seems many karateka remove those parts.
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Sailor Sindbad
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Joined: 05 Dec 2019
Posts: 19

Styles: Kobayashi Shorin-ryu

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: beginning move of Kanku dai (hand triangle) occult symbo Reply with quote

Journyman74 wrote:
With all the symbolism in todays society, Ive hoped that its not related to any of occult practices that you see egyptian sun worshippers or some other hidden meaning... Anyone have any thoughts on this?


If it had any occult origins, why would it matter? If there's any rules on this form against discussing religion, we're probably already in violation of that - so I'll accept any warning that comes my way because of this.

I'm atheist, so it only stands to reason that I wouldn't care.

BUT... doesn't the same apply to you if you're Christian? Did Jesus' victory over sin on the cross not free you from the need to worry about this, so that you can focus on fulfilling the Law via the Two Greatest Commandments?
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, to me, it's just a move/application, and nothing more. Making something that it isn't only hurts the MA and/or its practitioners. Styles of the MA have their methodology/ideology towards that which we're discussing, so I decide to leave that alone to them.



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smuraix1
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Joined: 06 Jun 2022
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Styles: Shotokan, Shindo jinen Ryu, C.Gracie Lineage jiu jitsu

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"To be honest, to me, it's just a move/application, and nothing more. Making something that it isn't only hurts the MA and/or its practitioners. Styles of the MA have their methodology/ideology towards that which we're discussing, so I decide to leave that alone to them. "




I couldn't have said it any better.
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Wayofaswede
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Joined: 16 Jan 2017
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Location: Sweden
Styles: Shito-ryu, Goju-ryu

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read this thread with great interest, since Kosokun-dai/kanku-dai is one of the katas I focus most on at the moment, training for 2nd kyu

Thanks for clearing things up, and thank you Miick for linking to that Gimberline bunkai video, made so much sense. Realized I’m already subscribing to that channel, but will definitely add more of David Gimberline to my ”Karate seminars” playlist
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