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tatsujin
Orange Belt
Joined: 12 Oct 2021
Posts: 162
Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu
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 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: beginning move of Kanku dai (hand triangle) occult symbo |
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| Journyman74 wrote: |
I know this question is out of left field, but I'll put it out there anyways..
As an experienced Karate practitioner, who has trained with different teachers, I often wondered what the significance of the hand triangle of the kata symbolizes. I've always found the particular part odd as compared to the rest of the traditional katas. Ive read that it translates to "looking at the sky" - other teachers have told me it also means to push somone back or another example is to harvest energy from the sun. With all the symbolism in todays society, Ive hoped that its not related to any of occult practices that you see egyptian sun worshippers or some other hidden meaning... Anyone have any thoughts on this? |
I have always seen the opening move to be a bit of a double strike. In most circumstances, the left arm is setting a wedge type of block (that is used as a strike) against an incoming right hand punch (straight or hook) and the right arm is a strike into the head and/or neck area of the attacker.
Within esoteric Mikkyo traditions, the kuji-in (九字印) or Nine Hand Seals does have a mudra or hand seal called zai (在) that looks very similar to this. And there is a similar type of practice that comes from Taoism. Actually, many folks believe the tradition started with the Taoists and it made the trek from China to Japan with other arts and traditions. But, I have serious doubts that it made it into the opening of the kata from there...but who knows I guess.
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For me bujutsu is not a set of techniques, but a state of the body. Once the principles are integrated, the techniques surge spontaneously because the body is capable of adapting instantaneously. |
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smuraix1
Yellow Belt
Joined: 06 Jun 2022
Posts: 31
Styles: Shotokan, Shindo jinen Ryu, C.Gracie Lineage jiu jitsu
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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I almost spit my coffee out upon coming across this question. Indeed, it is an odd move in the kata, but as the previous responses say, it is all in the "INTENT"
I know people that have a similar problem with YOGA- their reason being, the poses are supposedly spiritual in nature.
never heard about it with karate as kata resembles fighting sequences |
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LionsDen
Orange Belt
Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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That’s a common thing in king fu which is a large portion of karate’s origins.
You can find the same thing in white crane and golden crane katas, though it seems many karateka remove those parts. |
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Sailor Sindbad
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Dec 2019
Posts: 60
Styles: Kobayashi Shorin-ryu, Shotokan, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: beginning move of Kanku dai (hand triangle) occult symbo |
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| Journyman74 wrote: |
| With all the symbolism in todays society, Ive hoped that its not related to any of occult practices that you see egyptian sun worshippers or some other hidden meaning... Anyone have any thoughts on this? |
If it had any occult origins, why would it matter? If there's any rules on this form against discussing religion, we're probably already in violation of that - so I'll accept any warning that comes my way because of this.
I'm atheist, so it only stands to reason that I wouldn't care.
BUT... doesn't the same apply to you if you're Christian? Did Jesus' victory over sin on the cross not free you from the need to worry about this, so that you can focus on fulfilling the Law via the Two Greatest Commandments? |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16247
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest, to me, it's just a move/application, and nothing more. Making something that it isn't only hurts the MA and/or its practitioners. Styles of the MA have their methodology/ideology towards that which we're discussing, so I decide to leave that alone to them.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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smuraix1
Yellow Belt
Joined: 06 Jun 2022
Posts: 31
Styles: Shotokan, Shindo jinen Ryu, C.Gracie Lineage jiu jitsu
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:39 am Post subject: |
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"To be honest, to me, it's just a move/application, and nothing more. Making something that it isn't only hurts the MA and/or its practitioners. Styles of the MA have their methodology/ideology towards that which we're discussing, so I decide to leave that alone to them. "
I couldn't have said it any better. |
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Wayofaswede
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Jan 2017
Posts: 211
Location: Sweden
Styles: Shito-ryu, Goju-ryu
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:20 am Post subject: |
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I read this thread with great interest, since Kosokun-dai/kanku-dai is one of the katas I focus most on at the moment, training for 2nd kyu
Thanks for clearing things up, and thank you Miick for linking to that Gimberline bunkai video, made so much sense. Realized I’m already subscribing to that channel, but will definitely add more of David Gimberline to my ”Karate seminars” playlist
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The path so far: 2 kyu Karate (Shito-ryu), 3 kyu Aikido (Aikikai), 5 kyu Judo, 9 kyu Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu
Not a day without a kata |
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R5ky
Orange Belt
Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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That is a peculiar theory that's stated in the OP...
Putting bad jokes aside, Kanku will never be the same to me 
@Mick11
I appreciate how you cited the Karate culture video on the bunkai examples from the YT channel.
For over a year, their channel was missing.
It's unfortunate since I backed their cause and thought they were ambitious in returning karate to its origins. |
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