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joesteph
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Joined: 11 Aug 2008
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just tonight, while my boys were taking class and I was free to practice in a section of the dojang, a certain move was being worked on by a teenager (excellent green belt) who had a question to make sure he was doing the series right. I worked with him past that bump, and asked him if he knew the application. He didn't.

I'd been shown the application by my teacher quite a while ago, and she does it so well that I can't copy it. I use a modification that I picked up on the Internet, which I remember showing her with a fellow student as uke. To simplify, it involved a face-to-face bear hug of him over my arms, my responding with a bear hug under his arms, and then a facial grab of the opponent, my arms that had hugged reaching up behind his shoulders to grab his face and take him down backwards.

When showing the teen, my first error was that I didn't start in the right position, and though he didn't know what the application was, the simple resistance he put up prevented the application and triggered the right position in my mind. If he had just gone along, I'd have executed an application that wouldn't work in real life.

When it was done in the right position, he resisted enough so that instead of both my hands grabbing his face to pull him back and down, one hand seized. It worked, in that he was being pulled back, although there was no need for him to actually land backwards to know it was being done right.

In both cases, he was an honest uke. In the first, that I was doing it wrong, and in a real-life situation meet with a rude surprise. In the second, I encountered that it can be done, and likely be considered effective, but not done "by the book" with a resisting opponent as opposed to someone going along.

A good experience.
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why that kind of alive training is so important. Nothing goes as scripted when things start happening. Its good to have a set of directions to follow, but its also important to be able to improvise and think on your feet to get to where you need to be on the self-defense map. You don't get to do that with one-steps.
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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6186
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
That's why that kind of alive training is so important... You don't get to do that with one-steps.

That very much depends on what you're doing in one-steps. If its learning a set syllabus of 10 different attacks and defense against them then it does little good. But if you say that attacker and defender can do anything they like on the spot, makes a nice intermediate exercise between fundamentals and self defense and gets you close to realism. If the attacker steps forward with any kick or strike without the defender knowing whats going to be thrown it can be quite hard to react with an appropriate block and counter.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the initial attack of an improptu one-step regimine can be a good exercise, both for responding to an unplanned attack, and for seeking targets after defending. My whole problem with one-steps is the standing like a statue afterwards by the attacker.

The problem that I have seen and experienced with one-steps is the lack of building on them further, and moving on to more interactive things, and not necessarily sparring. I realize that my anger towards them likely comes from my own poor experiences with them, and does not necessarily reflect the experiences of others with one-steps.

I think that there comes a time when black belts shouldn't be using the typical one-step as a class-time-eating training tool. Its good to review now and then, and good for lower ranks. No place in higher level training, though.
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DWx
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think whether you use them in higher training depends on how you're using them. At a higher level it doesn't matter if your opponent just stands there after their attack as really there isn't an "after" as you should have already incapacitated them. We work towards being able to intercept the attack as soon as they move and then straight off either striking or a throw so that they can't throw another attack. Ok yes they are actually standing there but if your counter-attack landed properly, would they? Can always try one-steps with them suiting up so you can really hit them one.

I think they fit in pretty well between forms and free sparring. Its a chance to try out applications from your forms in a semi-controlled environment before then moving onto the free spar. And for seeing what you like to do and what works for you. Of all the 100s of blocks and counters you'll get your favourite and hopefully become proficient enough to pull them off in free sparring. Admittedly we don't do them a lot but we do train them in blackbelt classes. Great when we can change the initial attack to something using a knife or other weapon or the attacker can attack in a unorthodox way.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, you site ways of doing them that improve on the original; which is great. That is the point, to keep evolving.
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ptr
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Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 21
Location: NYC
Styles: Karate-Do Shotokai

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lupin1 wrote:
If I knew someone was going to try to move my arm to the right with their block, I'd just punch to the right to begin with.


If your partner is good enough he will notice and block you unexpectedly in the other direction - which should get the point across without inflicting any pain
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ptr
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Styles: Karate-Do Shotokai

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another common mistake is actually to punch in the other direction, trying to counterbalance the effect of the upcoming block - which is where it is good for the partner to change side unexpectedly. Another option is also to fake the block and watch Uke lose balance on his own

but anyway... being a honest uke is, I think, believe 200% sincere when performing your attack - regardless of what is coming.
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ichigotora
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Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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Styles: Goju-ryu karate-do Okinawan Weapons, little Shorin-ryu

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an excellent article. A problem I often find with doing partner work in a group is when we are all going on ‘the count.’ The students tend to block and punch in unison perfectly on the count, there being robots, not improving their perception of an incoming attack. I find a good trick is to tell the younger students to think up a word in their head like say-rocketships-and think it to add a pause before the punch. So I say “ich” pause as the students say their word in their head and then punch. Causing the blockers to have to be able to read when the attack is coming. Thanks for posting, great read!
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