Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Internal Arts and Philosophy
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14485
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject: Being Apprehensive!! Reply with quote

"I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you're not in the world to live up to mine." ~ Bruce Lee

Something I've tried to live up my entire life, both in and out of the MA. Sometimes, that might be easier to say than to live up to considering that we, as people, are individuals.

Question:

A) If you're an instructor of the MA, then don't your students have to live up to your expectations as well as to the expectations of the governing body?




_________________
Nominate Your Favorites in the KarateForums.com Awards 2019!

**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

CredoTe
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Being Apprehensive!! Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
...
A) If you're an instructor of the MA, then don't your students have to live up to your expectations as well as to the expectations of the governing body?
...


Quite the pickle isn't it? You bring up a good point... But, perhaps that's more evidence why Bruce Lee was such an anathema to "traditional" schools?


_________________
Remember the Tii!

In Life and Death, there is no tap-out...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14485
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Being Apprehensive!! Reply with quote

CredoTe wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
...
A) If you're an instructor of the MA, then don't your students have to live up to your expectations as well as to the expectations of the governing body?
...


Quite the pickle isn't it? You bring up a good point... But, perhaps that's more evidence why Bruce Lee was such an anathema to "traditional" schools?


Good point...actually...great point!!

Any thoughts on my question, though?



_________________
Nominate Your Favorites in the KarateForums.com Awards 2019!

**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

CredoTe
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Being Apprehensive!! Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
CredoTe wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
...
A) If you're an instructor of the MA, then don't your students have to live up to your expectations as well as to the expectations of the governing body?
...


Quite the pickle isn't it? You bring up a good point... But, perhaps that's more evidence why Bruce Lee was such an anathema to "traditional" schools?


Good point...actually...great point!!

Any thoughts on my question, though?




If a student is part of what we think as a "traditional" school, then yes, they must meet the expectations of instructors and any governing bodies. If they're treading their MA journey alone, then I'm not so sure.

IMHO, Bruce Lee's quote is more geared on a personal level to a practitioner that has figured out that his/her MA journey is his/her own, and that said practitioner has achieved a level of skill and understanding to begin making his/her chosen art his/her own. Once a student understands an art well enough to figure out his/her own decisions on the MA journey, then Bruce's quote is more applicable.


_________________
Remember the Tii!

In Life and Death, there is no tap-out...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14485
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wholeheartedly concur with your thoughts. Personal and professional "obligations" and "expectations" are just that, personal and professional. Both are considered, in this regard, but, imho, personal and private should be understood within said context and content.

Professionally, as Kaicho, I must meet expectations of my duties and responsibilities as written within the context and content of my contract, as well as our By-Laws.

In that, I must meet the expectations of my students as their Sensei if I'm to remain their Sensei. Therefore, am I providing my students with effective MA training within the scope of their understanding of what it is that they're seeking in the MA. Nonetheless, I don't have to meet their expectations as far as how I oversee the daily operations of my dojo in every shape, way, and/or form.

Personally, as a MAist, I must meet the expectations my Dai-Soke when he was alive. Since he's not, I don't seek to meet the expectations of my fellow MAists, both in and out of the Shindokan, and this is because there's an old idiom that goes something like this...

"You can please some of the people some of the time, but, you can't please all of the people all of the time!" A true statement of fact, imho. The MA world can be quite a peculiar thing, especially to the opinions and/or beliefs of individual MAists.

Imho!!



_________________
Nominate Your Favorites in the KarateForums.com Awards 2019!

**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Archimoto
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548

Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting question
I would say unequivocally YES!
Although, another fair question might be what are reasonable or permissible expectations?
In fact it's the answer to this question that led me, in part, to leave my JKD school of many many years. To make a long story short I had a philosophical "falling out" with my instructor. This was painful for me because I had a good relationship with him and I was a high level practitioner/instructor in the school buuuuuuut, as I matured intellectually and philosophically I came to the realization that he and I had vastly different "expectations". He's an amazing martial artist but in the end, to make a long story less long, and he would disagree with my characterization but I feel that he thinks of JKD as a style whereas I think of it as a philosophy or approach to the martial arts. It was this difference of opinion, which factored in to the framework of our expectations, that eventually put a strain on our relationship. Does any of this make sense?
_________________
To quote the great Bob Marley: "LOVE IS MY RELIGION"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

CredoTe
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Archimoto wrote:
Interesting question
I would say unequivocally YES!
Although, another fair question might be what are reasonable or permissible expectations?
In fact it's the answer to this question that led me, in part, to leave my JKD school of many many years. To make a long story short I had a philosophical "falling out" with my instructor. This was painful for me because I had a good relationship with him and I was a high level practitioner/instructor in the school buuuuuuut, as I matured intellectually and philosophically I came to the realization that he and I had vastly different "expectations". He's an amazing martial artist but in the end, to make a long story less long, and he would disagree with my characterization but I feel that he thinks of JKD as a style whereas I think of it as a philosophy or approach to the martial arts. It was this difference of opinion, which factored in to the framework of our expectations, that eventually put a strain on our relationship. Does any of this make sense?


Absolutely. You've shown that you understand your art well enough to begin making it your own and making your own decisions for your MA journey. I'm going through a similar experience with my current CI, so I'm right there with you...
_________________
Remember the Tii!

In Life and Death, there is no tap-out...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Archimoto
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548

Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CredoTe wrote:
Archimoto wrote:
Interesting question
I would say unequivocally YES!
Although, another fair question might be what are reasonable or permissible expectations?
In fact it's the answer to this question that led me, in part, to leave my JKD school of many many years. To make a long story short I had a philosophical "falling out" with my instructor. This was painful for me because I had a good relationship with him and I was a high level practitioner/instructor in the school buuuuuuut, as I matured intellectually and philosophically I came to the realization that he and I had vastly different "expectations". He's an amazing martial artist but in the end, to make a long story less long, and he would disagree with my characterization but I feel that he thinks of JKD as a style whereas I think of it as a philosophy or approach to the martial arts. It was this difference of opinion, which factored in to the framework of our expectations, that eventually put a strain on our relationship. Does any of this make sense?


Absolutely. You've shown that you understand your art well enough to begin making it your own and making your own decisions for your MA journey. I'm going through a similar experience with my current CI, so I'm right there with you...


Thanks!!!
Ok, you've piqued my interest! This venue may be too public, but if not, I'm dying to hear more !!!
_________________
To quote the great Bob Marley: "LOVE IS MY RELIGION"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

CredoTe
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Archimoto wrote:
CredoTe wrote:
Archimoto wrote:

...

...I'm going through a similar experience with my current CI, so I'm right there with you...


Thanks!!!
Ok, you've piqued my interest! This venue may be too public, but if not, I'm dying to hear more !!!


Well, all I can say right now is that my CI and I are at odds regarding the future of our dojo, as well as the future of our MA journeys. The path I believe I should follow seems to be in a different direction than the one my CI wants to go down. I've been with my CI for 15+ years, so this decision is a tough one. But, I have to go with what's in my heart and mind; I have to stick to my values in order to remain honest with myself. If I don't, I will end up breaking and deceiving myself, as well as deceiving others in the future. After all, if I cannot be honest with myself, how can I be honest with others? If I did that, how could I properly seek the truth in anything?


_________________
Remember the Tii!

In Life and Death, there is no tap-out...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Archimoto
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548

Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CredoTe wrote:
Archimoto wrote:
CredoTe wrote:
Archimoto wrote:

...

...I'm going through a similar experience with my current CI, so I'm right there with you...


Thanks!!!
Ok, you've piqued my interest! This venue may be too public, but if not, I'm dying to hear more !!!


Well, all I can say right now is that my CI and I are at odds regarding the future of our dojo, as well as the future of our MA journeys. The path I believe I should follow seems to be in a different direction than the one my CI wants to go down. I've been with my CI for 15+ years, so this decision is a tough one. But, I have to go with what's in my heart and mind; I have to stick to my values in order to remain honest with myself. If I don't, I will end up breaking and deceiving myself, as well as deceiving others in the future. After all, if I cannot be honest with myself, how can I be honest with others? If I did that, how could I properly seek the truth in anything?



Wow. Sounds like a similar situation to the one I was in.
On the one hand the decision is easy - and ultimately it's the one that you'll make.
But on the other hand, it's the relationship that makes it so difficult.
Breaking up is hard to do, but living with yourself if you don't is harder.
Does that make sense ?
_________________
To quote the great Bob Marley: "LOVE IS MY RELIGION"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Internal Arts and Philosophy All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >